From Bartender to CEO of MGM Resorts | Bill Hornbuckle Interview

Glenn: Hey, everybody. It’s your hospitality. Friend Glenn, with a super special show today. Why is that? I got the incredible Bill Hornbuckle here, president and CEO of MGM Resorts International. I don’t know why he chose to speak to me, probably because he doesn’t know me yet. Bill, it’s so great to see you.

 

Bill: Good to see you. Welcome back.

 

Glenn: Hey, thank you so much. I’ve been a big fan of MGM for a really long time, but I’m an even bigger fan of people that started at the entry level and worked their way up, and it’s incredible to me. You showed up here in 1977, right? 18 years old. I can’t even imagine at the time if you were thinking that you could get a job like this, or Las Vegas could even be a city like this.

 

Bill: Well, the answer was no and no. Right? Of course. Yeah. No, look, look. It was. Today it’s 2.5 million people. Then it was under 300,000 people. It was a completely different environment. Literally, the Mafia was still present in like seven of the nine key places, right? Et cetera. Et cetera.

 

Glenn: And just to educate our people, that didn’t really go away until Wall Street really came in. And gentlemen like Kirk Kerkorian.

 

Bill: Who started this in the early 80s. And so and so they weren’t operatives, but they owned pieces, etc.. And so, yeah, it was a completely different time and a completely different place. But it was exciting for a kid from Connecticut. Yeah, it was a place to come and really think about what you could do.

 

Glenn: Well, I’m a kid from Long Island, and it never occurred to me to come out to here, and I wish I did. It must have been so exciting with, like, endless opportunity, or at least the perception at the time that you had endless opportunity, even though this city was nothing like it is today.

 

Bill: Well, look, some of it’s luck serpent laziness. So I had I was watching a basketball game back at the time. The original Runnin Rebels were the thing in the 70s, and I’m watching this game, and at halftime they had one of these deals that they often have, particularly back then it was CBS. I remember this vividly, and they talked about the hotel school. And so I went into my I was going to community college at the time, and I went to my guy and I said, hey, look, I saw this school, UNLV hotel. I’d be interested. And he can you help me? And he goes, yeah, I can help you. I said, well, and he goes, I can really help you. I said, why is that? He goes, well, the dean used to be my college roommate. Oh, cool. And so I said, okay. And literally eight weeks later, I was on a plane here with two of my buddies. 30 minutes into the interview with the gentleman’s name was Dean Valens, at the time, the legendary dean for the hotel school here. And I was here in August. We showed up on August 12th in 1977 and never looked back.

 

Glenn: So how’s it going for you? Is it okay? I think it’s working out.

 

Bill: It’s working out.

 

Glenn: Okay. So you’re not going back to Connecticut?

 

Bill: I’m an overnight sensation. 47 years later.

 

Glenn: Yeah, but totally. Everything takes a while, and I find that people don’t necessarily have the patience these days. They want to walk right into the executive level. But you started at the ground level, like schlepping bags and stuff like that.

 

Bill: Well, yeah. Look what attracts me to the business. I was a bartender back in. Back in Connecticut at 18. You could be a bartender.

 

Glenn: Well, that was when you could drink at 18. Two, right?

 

Bill: Back then. Yeah. And so the social scene, the whole deal. Well, it’s an interesting industry. I went to school for it. Community college ended up out here, but here it was 21. Right. And so I got really. Yeah, I got here surprisingly, I got here and I had no money. I mean, we literally had no money. I had taken a student loan and bought, like all intelligent kids do. At 18. I bought speakers on the way out, my buzzer and I came out in this van. We bought speakers for our apartment and now I had no, no money, right? So I had to go to work. And so I went to work as a busboy at the Jockey Club. Right. And I can remember, I don’t know, three months ago. I’m sitting on the patio of one of the restaurants over here on the on the fountains. And I’m looking across at Jockey Club, I started laughing. I was sitting by myself waiting for my wife. I started laughing that, you know, 47 years later, I’m sitting here as the CEO of this company. It’s just.

 

Glenn: It’s incredible. So how did you. One of the problems that I’m seeing with young people out in the industry is they don’t necessarily realize in the hotel business and stuff that you could go above general manager, there’s all these executive positions. You probably didn’t realize that coming to this city. When did it when did your eyes open to the fact that you could be a leader in this city and help grow companies?

 

Bill: Well, to your point, it was later on, look back in those days and I got lucky again. I was working for Hilton, right. And so in terms of organized program, really had a management program, had an organization that you could kind of rely on to teach you.

 

Glenn: And this was back when they had the Las Vegas.

 

Bill: They had the Las Vegas Hilton, which is now Westgate and the Flamingo. I mean, literally Barron Hilton was here often the hole they were making real money here in the context of Hilton’s organization at the time. And so they paid a lot of attention to it. And so I got lucky. I happened to be there. I happened to be a desk clerk. I got literally found out by Barron Hilton one morning. So the story goes, and the next thing I knew, I was walking on a suit and tie at 22. Wow. And I was basically sitting in a desk in the lobby of the Flamingo, and I was the assistant hotel manager, which meant I was the complaint department. Yeah, but you learned the business intimately from that role if you thought about it. And you really if I go back and reflect on it, it was actually one of the more fundamental, foundational roles I had. And it was great to understand it because guests came to you with all their trials and tribulations, and you had to figure them out. Right? And so it lets you go do that and understand how this whole thing worked. And so it was very helpful. But yeah, it was very, very different then. And and so then the general manager to your comment was the guy. Yeah. You know, and I worked for this guy. Horseshoer a complete taskmaster, but he taught me a lot. And and then as the town grew, it really wasn’t until Steve Wynn took the vision for the Mirage, and I got to enjoy that ride.

 

Glenn: Right. Just so people know, that was a seminal day in Vegas history. November 22nd, 1989, when that property opened.

 

Bill: Right. And I was a VP of hotel ops at the time. And then we started talking immediately about Treasure Island. And then he got very interested in the site we sit on today known as Bellagio. And suddenly it became a larger organization, and particularly from his eyes and his vision, he had big ideas for Las Vegas. Yeah. And so, you know, to your point, Mirage was a benchmark for a benchmark, but a real striking stone for the Las Vegas. It turned everything around.

 

Glenn: It did. And a little bit more history. The reason why this company became so big is circus. Circus became Mandalay Group, which then merged with MGM after they bought out. Yeah. After Wynn left to go do his own own thing. So they they pulled that all together. And you’ve been on an upward trajectory ever since with all of these properties. So how are you thinking about your role as CEO today? What is your major responsibility besides to shareholders and all that?

 

Bill: Yeah, it’s kind of it’s. Well, look, first and foremost to the team, the employees, the group and the culture. And I’ll talk about that. But but it’s interesting if you take a step back because we’re talking about you mentioned Kirk’s name, Steve Wynn’s name, Sheldon Adelson’s name. I grew up in an era, era here where there was founders of companies.

 

Glenn: Right. And Sheldon Adelson, of course, created Sands, the Sands Expo Center, which he was told, you’re a crazy man. What are you talking about? And then all of a sudden, conventions became a huge thing.

 

Bill: And so, so I grew up with founders, and so now I find myself in a role where there are no more founders here, to be honest. There’s there aren’t other than some very small companies. And so, you know, you suddenly wake up and you realize you have the responsibility to take this destination, particularly at our scale and what we represent here to the next place. And so that’s telling and that’s compelling in both instances about who you are and what you are and where you think all this ought to go. We’ve been lucky of note to be involved on the ground level of sports and all that that’s become for this community, in this city. And now we’re thinking about, okay, now what? Yeah, well, sports is great. It’s still continue to grow. But now what are we going to do? Where are we going to go? How are we going to propel the city to yet again, another height?

 

Glenn: Right. Because you have to think Las Vegas has gone through so many different iterations. It’s like one day it woke up and realized, oh, there, there can be money made off the casino floor. And since then we’ve seen we’ve seen the percentage of income for a lot of these major resorts drop from almost everything to I think maybe you’re below 40%. Yeah.

 

Bill: This building. Right. One of the world’s most successful casinos, 70% is non-gaming revenue. Yeah.

 

Glenn: Unbelievable.

 

Bill: Think about that. Right? It’s, you know, hotels are real business. Entertainment is a real business. Retail, food and beverage, nightlife, all of that are real businesses. And that’s up and down the strip. That’s just us. It’s everybody is in that context. And we all know 5050. The bottom line is still gaming because of the margin and slot machines of note. All that said, people don’t come to Las Vegas to gamble anymore. Of course they do, right? They come for a reason. Whether it’s a sporting event, a convention, an entertainer, they want to come see what’s the generation of the trip? The the gaming piece has become somewhat ubiquitous. Now we all have different propositions and offers, and to some people it’s everything but to the general masses who come here on visits, it’s why. What’s compelling me to go? And it ain’t gambling, right? It’s the event.

 

Glenn: No, I completely agree with you 100%. Now, of course, there are still people that are here for the gambling and and they do. But the vast majority of people are coming in for all of the other things that you you offer out there. And I really love that you’re focused right now on sports and entertainment. I love live music more than anything, and I travel so much for work. It’s the only place I know that I could go see great concerts. So I do that, you know, I do that often in town. But back to you being a leader and stuff like that. As you were going upon your way, Did you ever hit a roadblock? And you’re like, this is it for me? Like, how do I work through this?

 

Bill: Yeah, I hit a couple. And I’ve. And I learned this lesson fairly early, but I left Hilton because Hilton traditionally didn’t pay a whole lot of money. Right. And literally, I remember being the assistant hotel manager. My sixth day was a 12 hour scheduled day. This was not an easy gig. And they were paying me like 19,000 a year, which at relevant times is not much money. No. But. But I could double my salary to go be a hotel manager at a place called the Landmark. Wow. And I did it. Place had no future. It had no senior leadership to speak to, to learn from, etcetera, etcetera. And I just did the obvious. Right. And it was a mistake. And I realized that about three months in it was like, what have I done right? And I did everything I could then to find myself someplace else in the meantime. Literally, the place went bankrupt and I found myself the owners went to jail for a massive SEC scam, the biggest in history.

 

Glenn: You learned a lot, too.

 

Bill: The point is, I became the acting general manager at 28 years old, and I was doing like we were dropping slots three times. One Friday just to make payroll. So you want to talk about pressure and about learning something and about how to keep a business alive. For about nine months I was in that mode and I survived it. So that was the learning exercise. But the idea of grabbing for the money to this day, with the exception literally of my last contract, I never asked for a raise. My philosophy is, and my recommendation strongly is do what you love, be passionate about it, do a great job and it will take care of you. And ultimately, if it doesn’t, go find something else.

 

Glenn: Bill, I love that you say that, because one of my things that I try to share with younger people is that follow your passion and the money will always follow. Because if you’re amazing at something and care about something, then the natural order of the universe is going to reward you. And it.

 

Bill: Doesn’t always. Every day? No. And every once in a while you get stuck working for an A-hole. But you know what? I’ve learned from them as well? What not to do.

 

Glenn: Oh my goodness. Yes, I completely agree with you. And throughout my career journey, I’ve learned as much from people who I don’t want to associate with as those who I do.

 

Bill: You can’t do it forever.

 

Glenn: But the good news is, our incredible business seems to, I think, attract a lot nicer caliber type of person because they’re imbued with that spirit of hospitality. So you’re on your journey. Here, you left Hilton. And just so you know, Hilton left Las Vegas. They spun off a company called Park Place, which held the real estate. They got out for a while. Las Vegas, Las Vegas completely transformed. And now they’re back with brands at multiple properties here around town. But where did you go after that landmark? You learned your lesson.

 

Bill: Golden nugget.

 

Glenn: The landmark. Just so you know, if you ever watch. I think it was in Mars attacks. They knocked down the building. That’s an actual implosion. Yeah.

 

Bill: Yeah, I was there.

 

Glenn: Yeah.

 

Bill: Were you there? Yeah. So cool. I’ve seen Aladdin. The dunes, the landmark all imploded.

 

Glenn: And just in case. And Sands as well. Was shoot that Nick cage movie, the finale where the airplane crashes into the building or something.

 

Bill: No, but at the Flamingo, I was assistant manager. Then I migrated my way into the sales office. Yeah. And one thing we did back then very well is we leased planes, and we did what they call back to backs. And so you take a plane, go to Detroit, bring to Las Vegas, you take the same plane, you go to Minneapolis, you come back, you get the people in Detroit, bring them back, and you do this round robin thing. We did that very well. We filled a lot of hotel rooms. Steve Wynn had built the South Tower downtown and was not filling it. Right. And he said, who did that? And I was not the only. But I was one of those people who knew how to do that. I ended up in front of him one day for an interview, actually, back in Atlantic City, which I was prepared to go to, God forbid in the context of the weather.

 

Glenn: As an East Coast guy, I totally respect that.

 

Bill: But I just got to the West Coast.

 

Glenn: I’m sure you go visit Borgata.

 

Bill: Yeah, I do. I do. But, but but I remember cold February day going back there for an interview. Bottom line is I got the job at the Golden Nugget, and then from there it migrated into Mirage and then beyond, right?

 

Glenn: That’s pretty cool. I win had a golden nugget in Atlantic City. He did not like Atlantic City. He said said no to that. The Golden Nugget downtown was great. That’s the South Tower you’re talking about.

 

Bill: And so that was and one of the things maybe pointed be known for something early on if you want to get ahead early. What is it. Who does this. The best. The best. But who does this. Well be known for something. And that was what I was arguably known for, that I could help put those programs together and knew the context, knew the people, knew the environment, and it worked. And so we were able to fill that South Tower with that kind of programming. And from that, Steve was able to build something called the Mirage.

 

Glenn: Yeah. And you got it. You were in part of that team, too. And if you you want to go back to ancient history, I’ll put a link in here. I interviewed Paul Steelman, who’s an architect, over that whole project. And again, one of the most seminal projects. What was that experience like? Because Mirage set the tone, I think, in my opinion, for the basis of everything we see today.

 

Bill: Look, despite all the rhetoric around Steve and some of its deserved rhetoric, one of the greatest, if not the greatest visionaries for Las Vegas. Full stop. He knew the business. He knew it intimately. He knew in his heart and his soul, and he got it right. But it costs three times what any place it cost before it.

 

Glenn: And they had to make, like $1 million a day in $1,989.

 

Bill: And Caesars was paying 250 a day. Give it perspective. And we got lucky the first year. Thankfully, we might not have made it. The Japanese guy comes along, and I think that first year he lost like $90 million or some silly amount of money. It was a lot of money.

 

Glenn: Well, yeah, that’s back when Japanese real estate was huge.

 

Bill: Think about that. Yeah. And he was one of those guys. And so it propelled the whole thing, and then it then it stuck, and then it worked. Siegfried and Roy became a phenom. And the rest is kind of history. But he, you know, brought resort. He brought first class restaurants. He brought real entertainment in the context of programming and it all just compelled and compiled itself into ultimately what became quickly Treasure Island, which is an idea and a theme.

 

Glenn: Park 2 or 3 years later was.

 

Bill: That it was 93?

 

Glenn: 93. So four years.

 

Bill: Later, four years later?

 

Glenn: Yeah, that’s that’s pretty amazing that you opened this. I think it was $600 million at the at the time. It was to immediately find such success that you could open up a sister property to it.

 

Bill: And the synergy worked and a bunch of other reasons. And then obviously, this was the biggest undertaking. Bellagio in 98.

 

Glenn: This was, if I recall, 1.75 to $2 billion back in 1997 .75.

 

Bill: And it was argued that it was too much. Right. History. History would say no, they got that wrong. But but at that point, I’d already started working for MGM and Mr. Kerkorian. I think one of the reasons they hired me is because I knew this company so well. Right. And so because I remember several occasions getting drilled on. Tell me about this. Tell me about this. Tell me about this. And anyways, we ended up taking over this company in 2000, and we’ve been stewards and growers of it ever since.

 

Glenn: What was it like working with Kirk Kerkorian in terms of learning and stuff? So.

 

Bill: Take Steve for what I mentioned in what he was and what he is. Look at Kirk. And and it’s a completely different animal.

 

Glenn: And these are the two of the biggest names in Las Vegas history.

 

Bill: And so and I’ll give you a couple of stories.

 

Glenn: I might even argue Parry Thomas the banker is another one. But he helped.

 

Bill: He helped in the beginning. Kirk was a gentleman’s gentleman. He was as kind and as soft as could be until it was time to attack and do something. I we bought this company literally in four days. What? Yeah, it was a Ford. That there was a thing leading up to it, right? Actual offer to shake hand was four days. Wow. So with Kirk, though, this is simple. So I get hired by then. Terry Lanni who was the former CEO at Caesars and went there? And I had been a short stint as president of Caesars. That’s how we got to know me. And they hired me, I think, to be the president of MGM Grand itself. The hotel. I think more for the knowledge about this. But anyways, that’s what they hired me for. And I talked to Kirk on the phone before I got the job, and he said, I’ll see you in the near future. So I’m walking through the hotel. I’m not on the job two weeks, and I see the buffet line of about 50 people and about 30 people back. There’s a guy who I recognize, I think is Mr. Coin, but I say, no, that can’t be him.

 

Glenn: Because he’s waiting on line.

 

Bill: Over there. I introduce myself, it’s Kirk Kerkorian, right? I said, Mr. Kerkorian, hi, I’m Bill Hornbuckle. He goes, oh, Bill, nice to meet you first, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, Mr. Kerkorian, what are you doing? He goes, I’m waiting to go to lunch. I said, well, let me escort you. He goes, nope. So now I’m talking to him for 20 minutes because I’m going to stand with him the whole way in. And he gets to the cashier and he pulls out a $20 bill. Wow. He owned 57% of the hotel at the time, and so it just speaks volumes about who he was, what he was, how he thought about the business.

 

Glenn: Well, he was really taking a pause to look at it from the customer’s point of view, as opposed to doing it from some sort of office.

 

Bill: Yeah. And he was just really big picture, you know, he would at the time, he owned 50% of the company. So he commanded the boardroom. What a surprise. Yeah. But when it was time to do something, he just jumped on it. He actively and intuitively, he knew what he wanted. Obviously, he created the international, which became the Las Vegas Hilton. He was the first to contract Streisand, Elvis Presley. So he understood the market well. And, you know, so he was an amazing gentleman to work for. Yeah, he wasn’t day to day, but he was a big, big idea guy.

 

Glenn: Yeah. And that’s a that’s that’s really important. So how did you develop your leadership style just over time?

 

Bill: A couple of things I learned along the way. Make sure you spend the time to tell employees why something’s happening or why they’re doing it. Because if they understand that, they’ll do a whole lot better. And so spending that time to do it and to know it it’s, you know, it’s it’s trite, but it’s not really treat them as you would want to be treated. And I’ve literally had 50 jobs in this, these businesses. So I know a lot of them intimately. That gave me street cred, if nothing, at least to start. Right? Totally.

 

Glenn: But then you have to prove yourself.

 

Bill: Yeah, you have to prove. But they gave me street cred. And so being able to talk to them and I understand how can we help. What’s going on. Why are you doing that. Well, this is why we’re doing it all that kind of dialogue went a long, long way. And and the other thing I believe leadership is about, it needs to be about, particularly when you’re in these big, scary buildings and there’s just a lot going on, is that you make people feel secure for their jobs. And so to the extent they feel like you’re sponsoring and you’re behind them and you’ll protect them from things that could happen meaningful to the extent they think you’re the big bad wolf. Yeah. Don’t go. Well, and I’ve seen a hundred people implode on that because while they’re smarter, while they’re probably far more educated, while they probably even have a great idea managing. And the average 28 year old who wants to be the GM tomorrow, right? The one thing they haven’t learned is how to lead people, right? And that’s the thing that just takes some time and some focus and some energy.

 

Glenn: It really does. And I think we make a mistake when we’re younger, that we think we know everything and do everything, but it really is a matter of being in the trenches every single day and learning these valuable skills. And you look back after you know, your 10,000 hours or whatever it is and realize you finally know what’s going on. So how do you balance you know, you could be the hero, but how do you balance sharing some, like, bad stuff that’s going on unpopular decisions.

 

Bill: As transparently and as quickly as you can. I have this expression bad news fast. Good news slow. Yeah. And I like to get it that way. And frankly, I like to give it that way. Yeah. And so to the extent you know, something’s not going right in a group, a department of hotel or whatever, say, look, this isn’t working well, this is how I feel about it. Am I right or wrong? Let’s talk it through. And then what are we going to do about it? And, and having at least initially, a response that people aren’t afraid to tell you what’s really happening is key to cutting a lot of noise and a lot of time. And so just having that relationship where it’s like, well, if I tell them what’s really going on, I’m going to get fired, the answer’s no. Well, then you got you’re in a good place to start, right? And look, not everyone performs. Not everyone gets to the finish line here. But having that kind of rapport is essential.

 

Glenn: And I’m sure part of your leadership style is making your expectations clear so people know how to survive in, you know, in this kind of atmosphere.

 

Bill: And look, it’s like it’s harder and harder. Yeah. It’s good to talk about the top of the trees, but

 

Glenn: Well, you must have. I can’t even imagine how many employees you have. Just in Las Vegas alone.

 

Bill: About 55,000.

 

Glenn: I was going to guess 50, but close.

 

Bill: But but. So sometimes it gets a little foggy. And you’ve got to make sure those messages are delivered, because what happens in reverse is I hear, well, Bill wants and I say to myself, no, no, no, I never heard of that.

 

Glenn: Yeah.

 

Bill: So just, you know, I think communicating consistently and transparently is crucial and important and not being having employees not afraid to walk up to you and say something that you may not want to hear, by the way, but the fact that they think they can do that is important and you will learn a lot quickly.

 

Glenn: That’s huge to have that trust, because if they’re not sharing, you don’t have access to all the relevant data that’s out there and you can’t make great decisions.

 

Bill: Yeah. I mean, what I learned from my hairstylist is incredible. And that sounds again, silly. It’s not just, you know, it’s not. And and people like that about how the how’s the business really going? What’s going on? I talk, you know, how do you. And by the way, you take it all in and you filter it, of course. And you. And if it’s productive, you do something about it in the right way.

 

Glenn: Yeah. I mean, you understand different people’s point of views where they’re coming from, why they’re why they’re expressing what they are and going from from there. So were you prepared to become CEO? I mean, you were prepared, but I’m talking about emotionally prepared to take on the role because you took over when Mr. Marron left during the Covid crisis, and you were kind of, like, not just getting an incredible new job, but getting an incredible new job at the toughest time in the history of the hospitality industry.

 

Bill: Was I prepared? Yeah, I was prepared. I mean.

 

Glenn: I meant prepared, like you have all the skills, but I mean, like, yeah, I mean, the college must have, like, you weren’t, like, thinking a year from now, I’ll be CEO, probably.

 

Bill: No, I was not, in fact, to the contrary, I thought I was going to because Jim was younger than mine. Right. And we had a great relationship, a great partnership. And I was doing my gig and he did his and I was running the day to day and he let me do that. And so frankly, Covid and leading into it because we also owned Macau. And remember China was before all of that.

 

Glenn: Right. I remember being here at Aria for Forbes travel event, and it was this was February and they were like so and so couldn’t make it from Macau. And we’re like, okay, what about.

 

Bill: We’re starting to get a little preview. So we operationally went into let’s let’s understand let’s think about then the really what’s a short period of time, of course, the two weeks leading up to the actual what we did in my transition, I was hardcore into what are we doing? How would we do this? What might we do if this happens? And then the transition happened quickly, and I was just doing the same thing. And frankly, at that speed, it was all instincts. It was like we weren’t doing analyst reports. Like.

 

Glenn: Well, there’s also nothing to base it on.

 

Bill: So yeah, at.

 

Glenn: That scale, you’re utilizing your entire career’s worth of knowledge in order to try to figure out a way. And, you know, obviously they weren’t alone. All of you hoteliers out there that were in the industry at the time realized what a horrible, difficult situation it was with no clear end in sight.

 

Bill: Look, for us, it lasted seven weeks, eight weeks. We laid off 62,000 colleagues, which was brutal without an end in sight. Because we didn’t know. At first we thought it would be two weeks. And then then about the third or fourth week, we realized oh, this is going to be longer. And who knows how who knew how long? And about the seventh or eighth week, I think we started to bring some, but we, we purchased we still have it, if you’re interested, $17 million of Plexiglas. I mean, we had plexiglass everywhere, but we got ourselves operating again and we slowly climbed out of it for a couple of months. We had I remember resurgence in January of 21. And then when we got through that in March or April, it went like a rocket ship.

 

Glenn: When did you when. Not that you ever can in this job, but when did you go?

 

Bill: I think by the fall of 21, I felt we were going to get out of it because there was we were burning $300 million a month.

 

Glenn: Oh, my.

 

Bill: Yeah. So, you know, so it was, you know, those two months that we were completely down. It was like, well, that was expensive. Yeah. And Macau, while it opened for three years, Macau was under the. And that wasn’t helping any by the way. Now that finally obviously returned to then some. But it was it was difficult times.

 

Glenn: What did you learn coming out of that?

 

Bill: Trust your instincts.

 

Glenn: Yeah.

 

Bill: You know, don’t be afraid to make a decision.

 

Glenn: I think you’re I’ve learned. No, but I know what you.

 

Bill: Mean at scale.

 

Glenn: But I think in as far as human beings go, we don’t trust our guts enough. And the gut is really an amalgam of everything I think you’ve been through in your entire life. And, you know, bring up another Malcolm Gladwell book, blink. You know, it’s really all about you get that sense based on all of those decades of experience. So trust me.

 

Bill: We’ve gone through the Great Recession. We’d gone through nine over 11. I mean, there was a bunch of stuff that Las Vegas upped and down, and this was obviously the biggest one. But it was trust your instincts. Do you generally you’ll get it right.

 

Glenn: Do you find coming out of that other end, like whatever comes your way doesn’t affect you as negatively anymore? Because that was such a colossal crisis.

 

Bill: We’re calmer about most things.

 

Glenn: That’s what I’m saying.

 

Bill: Yeah. I don’t know, I’m just thinking that’s true. That’s fair.

 

Glenn: For me personally, like, I feel like I was through such a large crisis. We had lost my entire business and I had to build it back. So no matter what happens, it’s not as severe. And I don’t feel it’s as severe. Yeah. You know, that’s fair. That’s fair. So what about talent? You know, you’ve got 55,000 people here, and a number of them have got to be great future leaders. How do you within this company identify those people and help them shine and reach their utmost potential? So, look.

 

Bill: We we had all levels of various programs, starting with something called the Management Associate Program, where we go get fresh college kids out of UNLV and other colleges. We nurture them, we bring them into the company, and we hopefully grow them. We have mentorship programs. We have senior leadership programs. The higher you get, the more personalized and tailored they are. Like, I have five people, maybe six in my direct remit that I am personally talking consistently about. Where are you going? How are you going? How are you going to get there? A couple of them want my job and okay, what does that mean? And, and we triangulate that down to not every level because it gets crazy, but we triangulate that down to directors. Executive. Executive director and above. And generally it works. Look, we’re prime pickings. We do things relatively well around here. We have relatively large scale operations and policies and procedures. And so, you know, we’ve got to be always careful of getting picked. But but generally speaking, I think the culture is important. And I think what we do around here and how we represent that culture is important. And and look, it’s a great place to make a living.

 

Glenn: How do you keep a culture of innovation going then?

 

Bill: It’s scale. It’s difficult.

 

Glenn: Yeah.

 

Bill: One of the things I have this expression called a culture of. Yes. And and what that means is that this scale over all the things we’ve been through, we end up with policy and procedure on top of policy and procedure. Right? Well, something happened, and a lawyer did something. Something happened in a compliance guy did something. Something happened with regulators. And we did this. And you wake up one day and it’s like, well, you can’t breathe. And so I got to a point where in 22 I said, wait a minute, because a couple of stories resonated with me about guest experiences that didn’t resonate well. And I said, stop. We need to have a a simple idea of a culture of yes, which means maybe I can’t do this, but but I will figure out how to make this appropriate and right for you, whether it’s an employee or a guest. And so that’s, you know, I think resonated through the company and has helped us at least think about that you know idea. And it and the other thing is, if you violate a policy or procedure, as long as it’s in that vein and believed to be in that vein, chill out. Right. We’ll figure it.

 

Glenn: Out. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I love that approach. But how do you get to people to actually believe that in their heads? Because there are so many companies that we’ve been. Yeah. You know what I’m asking?

 

Bill: When the first time they do it and nothing happens bad to them, you know, and this is a simple example I gave. But this is a true story. A guy and his wife, he’s in Dallas, she’s in Seattle. They’re tech folks. They want to come to Vegas for the weekend. He says, I’ll meet you there Friday. She makes the reservation. He shows up five hours early here at Bellagio. Right. Do you think he could check in because she made the reservation, right? No, no.

 

Glenn: Because.

 

Bill: He sits in the lobby for five hours. Think about that. Yeah. So I get this story. It’s like, well, yeah, because one day, five years ago, something happened when we let a guy into a room and stop. Yeah. Stop all that. Say yes in that circumstance, figure it out. And to the moment that that desk clerk in that example, that assistant hotel manager knows that they’re doing the right thing with the right approach and they’re safe. That’s the day this thing really takes off.

 

Glenn: But I also like that ethos of just because we’ve done it one way doesn’t mean we have to continue to do it that way, because maybe that a policy that you had made sense ten, 15 years ago, but the universe has changed and it doesn’t work that way.

 

Bill: There are so many that you got to keep you’ve got, you’ve got you’ve got to give people the individualized freedom to make a decision. And then you can coach it later. Here’s the other thing. Hopefully I know this is starting with me, but but hopefully we don’t personalize coaching. We professionalize it. What I mean by that is you’re not the stupid idiot who did this, but let’s talk about the circumstance you were in and how we won’t do that again. Right. Just in general. And that’s a tough thing for some frontline management to learn and to know. Yeah, they get frustrated. They’re only human beings at the end of the day. And so they personalize things. And the moment you personalize it to me as doing bad. Yeah I shut down.

 

Glenn: Bill, that’s such.

 

Bill: A.

 

Glenn: Hard thing to do, though, right? Because, like, we’re all insecure people on some level, so we take things personally. So I think it’s incumbent upon each of us to try to figure out a way to get out of that mindset and be in that culture mindset of growth, and understand that we’re not born perfect beings, and we have stuff to learn from people.

 

Bill: And as a manager or supervisor trying not to personalize scenarios that have happened. And even if you feel like the guy is just like, what did I do? I shouldn’t hire this guy. At the end of the day, particularly for a coaching exercise, you cannot personalize. You have to. I call it professionalize it. Let’s talk about what happened. Let’s talk about why we can do that differently in the future. Whatever nomenclature you want to use, the moment it becomes personal, it is all downhill.

 

Glenn: Yeah. So really what we’re talking about is setting the stage for people to be confident in their decisions so that they feel safe and secure within the organization to make guests happier. So talk about making guests happier. Bill, how are you thinking now about where we’re headed with with Las Vegas and Hospitality and gaming.

 

Bill: And it’s a couple of things going for Las Vegas. Sports has become a real thing. And and it’s very helpful, particularly at the right moment in time. We were ripe for it. We you know, we started boxing, we started boxing. Golden Knights we’ve hosted. But the Golden Knights were fantastic thing.

 

Glenn: And it feels like you started boxing because boxing at MGM Grand Arena are like synonymous to me.

 

Bill: The whole. Yeah. And so it was great growing up with all that. And all that being said, though you know, we’re on the precipice of now a baseball team. We’re all over the idea of an NBA expansion team, and we’ll have all the professional sports. And I’ve said this a hundred times, I’ll say it again, it takes a three hour event and makes it a three day experience. And so that for Las Vegas is a major undertaking and a major win. What’s next? Markets changing. Millennials think different about gaming. Anyone younger than that everything up to and including. It’s interesting. My son, 24, doesn’t drink half of what I drink.

 

Glenn: My 21 year old twins don’t drink a quarter of what I drank at their age, if that much.

 

Bill: No. And so they come to Las Vegas. They like to have a good time, but there’s a whole different genre of mindset going on there. So being positioned to cater, to understand it, to cater to it, to still figure out how to make money at it. Because at the end of the day, we owe it to shareholders. All complicated. The sports thing wasn’t it wasn’t easy to do. It was easy to think about. Right. Of course that would work right now. Getting it accomplished was just a bunch of work.

 

Glenn: A lot of work. Like building the T-Mobile arena when the rest of the town was like, what?

 

Bill: The hockey.

 

Glenn: Thing was. Yeah.

 

Bill: Hockey. What are you doing? Yeah, but obviously that worked. So all that said, that’s been easier. Formula one. Not quite as easy, but but that’s here to stay, I believe. And I’m excited by all of that. So it’s really you know we’re all dabbling with experience experiential. The thing back here this area 15 thing does three main people a year. It’s like that’s interesting. I don’t make any money at it yet, but the idea that people want to go see and experience those things and do those things is interesting.

 

Glenn: It is. And with universal horror opening up a permanent facility over there. I think that’s going to get a lot more eyeballs. Although I am a little skeptical because there used to be a horror thing right here on the strip. Years ago, I’m forgetting who put it on, but it only lasted like six months. Do you remember?

 

Bill: But part and parcel to that whole thing. It worked for Las Vegas. I wish them well. But that idea of, you know, the screaming people, by the way, are coming out of these buildings. So how do we bring them back to the strip and make sure they stay with us and and we give them experiences that are top notch and something. And so we’ve got a bunch of ideas out there. The other thing we’ve got, we’re pushing on events trying to make trip makers, not just itinerary fillers. Yep. So we did something this year with tennis. Tennis hasn’t been here in a while. We’re trying to promote different things that haven’t been here in a while. Yeah, and bring them to a level where people would come and want to come for them.

 

Glenn: Yeah. I mean, when you have, like, I’ll just say like a Bruno Mars or something like that. Over at Park MGM, people are going to come for that. I happen to be in town and saw Sammy Hagar, which was awesome by the way, but a lot of people there. I was running solo that night because I was in town for a gig, but a lot of people there flew in just to see that event.

 

Bill: Yeah, it’s interesting that particularly now, God bless the old timers and I’m one of them in terms of music. So my kid was Who’s Sammy Hagar? But but all that said, creating those events and keeping that fresh is important.

 

Glenn: Well then you get a citywide event like the EDM and like, you know, kids our age can go do that sort of a thing like that. So one of the important things is getting closer to the customer. Right. And one of the things that I’m finding in the greater hospitality industry is in order to get people spending, you need to make them want to spend the money, not make them feel as if they have to spend the money. So to me, the way out is really understanding CRM and utilizing technology to get closer to the guest emotionally, so you could serve them up with opportunities that they’re going to want to take and feel really good about that. So how are you thinking about this? And I’d like to preface it by saying these guys were in it really super early. I remember when I first got a cell phone and texting started to take off. I would be able to walk by and be like, go see a car, get a discount ticket or something like that. So you were in this before anyone knew what this was? I mean, look.

 

Bill: This goes back to even before if you if you think about casino marketing, database marketing against a cash register called a slot machine or a table game, we know those customers and their behavior fairly intimately. And so we we cater to it. We we speak to it, we give it different criteria and give it different opportunities to come. The trick is to take that now to everybody else who maybe doesn’t qualify in that realm. But but we’ll come in a place like Bellagio, maybe not gamble that much, but spend 30,000 on room food, beverage shows, whatever. Understanding that and then being able to market to it at scale, not just 1 to 1, although the trick is 1 to 1 is the hard part. Now, one of the interesting things, ever since Covid 35% of our guests now check in with their phone digitally check in. That’s their room key. So if you think about that, you’ve now given me your phone number, right? So now I have a direct link to you not abusing. That’s important, because the moment I give you too much of what you don’t want.

 

Glenn: Right? And you hit stop. Stop that.

 

Bill: And so there’s a trick to all of that that we’re migrating our way through. I will tell you, AI is going to be a big leap forward in that, because to do it at scale became complicated. It becomes complicated. What do I offer you? You like. You like steakhouses? Do I offer you a free bottle? I mean, so thinking about all of that is is complex at scale, where technology has gotten to the fact that I can now digitally get you more engaged with all kinds of things, including, by the way, in 38 states, gaming. Yeah. Is very compelling and very interesting for us.

 

Glenn: Totally. And you you really need to separate yourselves in this market from everybody else. Because I could leave my house and go to Jake’s 58 on Long Island or something like that, but that’s just a gamble. That’s not to have an all around experience, for example. And that’s why I enjoy this town so much, because I think you’re really at the forefront of all of these experiences. We’ve already talked about the the sports and the music and all of that kind of stuff. So what is like luxury or entertainment really mean to you today compared to like your first days when you were a Jockey Club?

 

Bill: Oh, it’s a personalized thing, meaning it’s what I like to do, right? I like cars and so, you know, for me, a Sunday drive, three hours to the mountain in one of my fast cars is like nirvana. Yeah, it’s an escape. It’s all of those things. And so telling me, you know, there’s a ride. Meet here at Sunday morning at 8 a.m., you know, we’ll have coffee and let’s go. That’s heaven. And so understanding that about me and understanding about our customer, knowing that somebody is a huge Lady Gaga fan and therefore making sure we have the right thing available to them at that moment is is not hard to do. Data is there, but but combing through it, getting it all right, tuning it to the individual is the trick. And so, you know, so luxury is going to be a huge thing.

 

Glenn: Huge trick. You can have like a, you know, Lance Burton or something like that.

 

Bill: Look it’s a certain quality of event or hospitality and accommodation and service you would expect at various different market levels. But what really floats the boat is when they get my experience. Right.

 

Glenn: Yeah. And that’s that’s what it’s all about. Right. If you could connect emotionally with the customer, then that’s going to be a radical change in the way that we deal with things. It’s no longer a transactional. It’s emotional.

 

Bill: Here’s something happened in Las Vegas. Very interesting. So back in the 90s when I was at MGM, you know, the whole N’Sync, the first time around, the Backstreet Boys, the first time around was.

 

Glenn: Crushing it in town now. Yeah.

 

Bill: By the way, it’s fascinating story all by itself. But, but but the interesting thing about that was it was wildly successful. Not because they sold out the arena. Because parents wanted to give their kids a treat. Yeah, and those parents are the ones we wanted to have come see us. And so that linkage between I can give my kids something they love and enjoy and I can go play. Yeah, it was a home run and figuring those kinds of things out. Emotional thing. Go back to emotional connection. That was an experience not for me, but for my kid. But that made me as happy as me going to do something. And I got to come to Las Vegas, per se. And so even the Backstreet Boys in the late 90s or early 2000 were an amazing excuse to get people here.

 

Glenn: Yeah. I can’t believe it was that that long ago? It was long ago. I guess I can’t believe we’re all that old at this point. So think about all of these things. How are you thinking about, like, Detroit and Massachusetts and the upcoming Osaka property and how all of these properties fit into the MGM resorts family?

 

Bill: Well, I’ll start with Osaka because it’s our biggest, you know, it’s a $12.5 billion project that we’re going to open in 2030. 12.5, half. 12.5 billion. Who couldn’t be more excited? We’re going to be the only licensee in all of Japan.

 

Glenn: Amazing.

 

Bill: And so just I mean, it’s 100.

 

Glenn: This has been going on at least a decade.

 

Bill: I think.

 

Glenn: Maybe longer.

 

Bill: We saw my chief development officer went to see his first diet member in 2009. I joined in 2011, and it’s been a journey ever since. So it’s really been a 20 year plus journey. That said it will help change the nature of this company very much because we’ll be the only licensee, I think, for a considerable period of time. So I think it’ll be just a gangbuster, I really do. The other properties regionally fit into the sphere in terms of input to Las Vegas, in terms of market leaders and many of those markets, whether it’s Borgata, you know, we got 40% or 38% of the market there. National Harbor is the same thing. Beau Rivage is the same thing. And so we attract to regional markets. We can lead in that ultimately we think have throughput back to Las Vegas as part of the ecosystem of our rewards program. All exciting stuff. All good stuff. You know, and then what’s happening in places like Detroit where digital gaming, both sports and iGaming in Michigan are allowed? The whole notion of an omnichannel program where I can talk to you all the time. Right. Is very compelling to us.

 

Glenn: That is and I believe Jersey is the same new Jersey.

 

Bill: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

 

Glenn: Yeah. That’s that’s really fascinating. And that’s that’s really where you start to differentiate yourself. One of the things I believe I’m correct about is as a rewards member, I could earn benefits through everything off the gaming floor too, right. In restaurants you.

 

Bill: Get you get credit.

 

Glenn: Right? And that’s really important. And I know there’s even one company out there that’s trying to appeal towards just non-gamers because they realize, like you said, so much money is coming off the gaming floor that these are valuable people who want to have incredible resort experiences. They just might not be high roller, right?

 

Bill: So identifying them right, qualifying them for certain different programs and going after them is a big initiative for a lot of companies, including ours.

 

Glenn: Yeah. All right. So when you were your kid’s age, what if you were your kid’s age now, what advice would you give your younger self?

 

Bill: Well, I have a 24 year old son who’s just starting this business. And be patient. You know, it’s a grind. Yeah. You’re going to work hard. Be present. I think that’s really important, particularly in today’s environment with the whole work from home thing. And, you know, be present, be patient, be focused and be known for something. Johnny does this really well. Let’s lean in and lean on Johnny. Well, geez, Johnny does that. Well, maybe he can do this well. Right. And I think that’s. Those are really important things. There’s obvious other traits. I mean, when we talk about who succeeds in hospitality because at the end of the day, it is still a people business. Right? And if you want to lead people, they better like you. They don’t need to like the boss. That’s bullshit. Yeah, you do need to like the boss. Yeah.

 

Glenn: Because you want to do more if you like the boss, it’s just natural, right?

 

Bill: And so that’s all relevant. So teaching the fairly basic things, but they’re real. And, you know, the patience thing is one of the bigger ones.

 

Glenn: Yeah, that’s that’s really, really hard. Did you have, like a mentor in your career that helped you like you’re helping the younger people today?

 

Bill: I had several along the way. Yeah. You know, this guy at the Flamingo was my original GM. He was German guy, you know, autocratic.

 

Glenn: But yeah, the the European hospitality mindset, especially German, is very different than American.

 

Bill: I learned that not all positive, but I learned that for the to be sure, you know, thinking about life the way Steve Wynn thought about life in terms of this industry was fascinating vision and otherwise. And he understood the core of the business and really the soul of it. The qualities and traits personally that Kirk had Terry Lanning was a mentor for a while, and there were others for sure along the way. Bobby Baldwin, in the context of gaming, was a big part of my career. Just had to think about gaming Gamers of note. Gamblers of note. You know, don’t be afraid of them.

 

Glenn: Did Bobby Baldwin also give you good poker tips?

 

Bill: No, but he did. He did teach me about poker players and their psyche.

 

Glenn: Yeah.

 

Bill: Which is, you know, it’s interesting because, you know, while they’re professional poker players, the vast majority of them, they enjoy poker. And that’s how they write. There’s about a 10% of them that kind of dabble off. And that’s the focus group.

 

Glenn: Yeah, right. That’s pretty cool. All right. So what keeps you grounded? I mean, you got to be working 24 over seven, but you’ve got to break away and re-energize besides those fast cars.

 

Bill: Yeah. Family. I have a second home up in Park City, which is our escape and our our happy place. We call it our getaway place. Those two things almost more than anything else. Yeah. And and look, not taking any of this all too serious. This is like, you know. Like what? This is kind of crazy, but.

 

Glenn: Yeah, but that’s got to be. That’s got to be the ultimate easier said than done type of a of a thing because you’re dealing with.

 

Bill: You get stressed.

 

Glenn: So much.

 

Bill: Yeah, you get pressure. Stress. And now that we’ve become global, it is literally around the clock. I mean, we have a project in Dubai we’re working on. We have a project in Japan we’re working on. We have a cow that we own the majority stake in. Plus domestically things start, you know, we’re up for licensing or not licensing. We’re up for an expansion starting next week in New York and etc., etc..

 

Glenn: Well, let’s hope let’s hope New York can make a decision. I think New York’s decision making is going on longer than they were getting the Japan contract. I say that as a New Yorker and I love you guys. But, you know.

 

Bill: It’s you know, it’s a 24 over seven environment but thrive on it. Yeah. You know.

 

Glenn: Yeah. Well I’d like to see hopefully you guys will get to expand up there in Yonkers and stuff like that. That’ll be really.

 

Bill: Cool. I like our chances.

 

Glenn: Yeah, that that is great. So any final thoughts before we wrap up today?

 

Bill: No. Look, it’s a fascinating industry. We’re all in this side of it I think opens up more opportunity than not. You know, in terms of if you think about where the entertainment business people ask me, what business are you in? I say, I’m in entertainment business. Tongue in cheek, but not really. That’s the business.

 

Glenn: You really.

 

Bill: Are. That’s the business that we really are in. And so just having an open mind to it, if there’s ever an example of somebody who can go from literally a busboy to a CEO in a major company on that example, and it’s possible within this industry, and not a lot of industries can say that.

 

Glenn: No, they are not. And hey, he said it this time instead of me saying it for the 10,000th time.

 

Bill: It’s a great industry.

 

Glenn: I’ve met so many incredible CEOs that all started just like you did. And that’s why this industry is so special to me. I know so many CEOs without a college degree that worked their way up, and that is what matters most. Hard work, discipline, being, being who you say you’re going to be and continuing to get uncomfortable with being get comfortable with being uncomfortable so you could keep pushing yourself. Yeah. Thank you so much, Bill. I really appreciate it. This has been awesome. Thanks for you for watching. Hey, be sure to like, subscribe and all that kind of stuff to our videos. We’ll see you next time right here on No Vacancy.