The Art of Turning Neglected Historic Buildings Into Extraordinary Hotels

Glenn: [00:00:01] Hey everybody. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode of No Vacancy Live. We’ve got the Incredible Doctor producer, Suzanne with us today. And of course, I’m Glenn Haussman. How are you today, Suzanne?

Suzanne: [00:00:12] I am very good. I’m looking to see if I can add any, I don’t know, metal knowledge to my lineup for today.

Glenn: [00:00:20] Oh, I’m sure we’re going to get we’re going to get a lot of education today. But the curious thing is, if I always ask you how you are and if then you like, say you’re like, you’re terrible or something like that, then what happens? Do we like derail the conversation? Do we have an emergency? Put the guests on hold.

Suzanne: [00:00:37] Quite honestly, that would be like the question I would ask you, and your answer would more likely be that the world has collapsed and you’re terrible. Typically, there’s very few times where I actually.

Glenn: [00:00:48] That is true. And I am known as the most pessimistic, optimistic person around. So there, there is that. But one thing I am always optimistic about is saving our old buildings and making sure they get new life breathed into them. And Suzanne, we’re such hospitality geeks and like the whole idea of taking something and making it a hotel is pretty cool

Suzanne: [00:01:15] Absolutely. I love seeing repurposed buildings and the history. I’ve been around a lot in the northeast to see a lot of those fun projects, and honestly, it’s one of the things that I love going to a new city and going to find those properties. I love doing my own secret little tours.

Glenn: [00:01:33] Yeah, you sure do. And while she’s having a secret little tour, one thing I’d love for all of you to do is please do me a favor. Check out our friends over at Actabl Actabl. They give you the power to profit. Check them out, please. Got a lot of different great products out there. Help save you money. All right, so let’s get into it. Let’s bring in our guest today. We got Mr. Jim Brady. He’s the president of Fathom development. Company. Management. Company architect. Savant. Lots of stuff going on here. How are. How are you, Jim?

Jim: [00:02:06] I’m doing great. So glad to be with you. And with you, too, Suzanne.

Suzanne: [00:02:10] Absolutely wonderful to have you.

Glenn: [00:02:12] All right, so you focus primarily on like adaptive reuse products projects, right? Taking those amazing buildings and turning them into something, I would say very of a specific place and time and feeling about it. So my first question to you, Jim, is, when did you fall in love with old buildings that everybody was like, oh, these are gross.

Jim: [00:02:39] Well, I, I think, you know, in my early years my mother was a real estate broker and, and so I had an opportunity to look at some older buildings and some really cool things. And when I transitioned out of my professional sailing career, which I did in the late 1990s. So I had a whole, whole different background than. Than real estate before I got into it. And one of my first projects was doing a, you know, a big renovation project of an old building. And I’ve now had the opportunity to do that on multiple different buildings. And here in downtown Portland, I happen to live in Portland. Fathom is based in Portland, Maine. And one of the projects we did here was an adaptive reuse. So taking an old office building. It used to be the Portland Press Herald newspaper building. And converting that into a press hotel, which was an autograph collection.

Glenn: [00:03:32] Yeah.

Jim: [00:03:33] Won a bunch of design awards. But you know, it’s these, these old historic buildings typically are in these towns where they’re in a downtown. Oftentimes that downtown maybe needs some revitalization. Breathe new life and energy into the local community. We’re in an interesting part of downtown Portland, where some of the local investors I asked to to kind of join me in that project said, oh, you know, that’ll never work up there in that part of town. That’s kind of the wrong part of town. And funny enough, they were nice enough to come back years later and said, yeah, I got that wrong.

Glenn: [00:04:08] Yeah. Well, because sometimes you can’t you when things are, you know, not what they used to be. And the city’s had that kind of downward slide. It’s very easy to picture all of that just continuing down, but not think about how New York came back in the late 1990s, or how Detroit is coming back now and just see the the worst. So you’re probably born a pretty positive personality are able to see the, the more positive side of an investment there.

Jim: [00:04:36] Yeah, we have another one we’re doing now, which another part of town that somebody would say, oh, that’ll never work there. But we, we acquired a couple of years ago, a beautiful 1910 ten story historic bank building with still office space when we acquired the building. We’re turning that into the Monument Hotel. It’s at a place called Monument Square. It’s going to be a leading hotels of the world project. So we didn’t do a franchise this time. We did an affiliation with a, with a luxury membership organization. And, you know, like we did with the hotel, we’re kind of targeting the kind of luxury top end of our market. And we’re doing the same thing now with, with the Monument Hotel, which is under construction currently and is planned to open in the summer of 2027. Again, a historic, a historic tax credit, gut rehab. So, you know, these kind of projects don’t work without the historic tax credits. There’s a pretty favorable program at the federal level that gives you $0.20 on the dollar of historic rehabilitative tax credits. And in the state of Maine, we have a particularly advantageous program that gives you $0.25 on the dollar of what they call sris or qualified rehabilitation.

Glenn: [00:05:53] That’s that’s pretty cool. That’s much better than the five cent per five cent per return. Can we get here? You got it. You got it. Yeah.

Jim: [00:06:01] You can imagine you’re getting $0.45 of credits on the on the hard construction costs and some of the, you know, design soft costs. So that goes a long ways towards making these, you know, grand old Dom buildings, you know, bringing them back to life again.

Glenn: [00:06:14] Yeah, it sure does. You gave us a whole lot. But so I’m going to make Suzanne ask the next question.

Suzanne: [00:06:19] Well, this was a great conversation that Craig Sullivan, our friend over at Quick Connect, had during the lodging conference as well in terms of an adaptive reuse and those credits that come into play, I would love to, to hear a little bit further about maybe some of the unique finds or the challenges that you might have had in taking one of these historic projects and making the reality come to the fact that you can actually sleep in it.

Jim: [00:06:51] Yeah, well, that’s a great question, Suzanne. And there is a lot of little complexities, if you will, to these kinds of projects. I’ll tell you that one of the ones we even underestimated a bit in this latest project was an extensive amount of environmental remediation. So a lot of these buildings have asbestos in the plaster. They have lead paint on the windows. They have asbestos insulation around old pipes. That’s been that’s been one of the challenges. It takes a lot of time to deal with those things. You don’t usually know how big a big a price tag that environmental.

Glenn: [00:07:26] Because you don’t know what’s actually going to be behind those walls, for example. Exactly right.

Jim: [00:07:30] So that’s one of the kind of the one of the risky aspects of doing some of these older buildings. And, you know, the, the $0.45 on the dollar tax credits aren’t just kind of free money in your pocket because these buildings are more expensive oftentimes to renovate than they are to build ground up new construction.

Glenn: [00:07:48] Are you able to tie? Are you able to tie any tax credits into post opening? Because now you’ve taken on the role of being a economic center to help drive development in the downtown corridor?

Jim: [00:08:00] Well, so there are a number of different things that are out there. You know, we we have used new market tax credits at a state level on two different projects. We’ve used an opportunity zone fund. So, you know, kind of other means of trying to help drive a higher return by using either subsidies or some form of tax credits or whatever to help kind of make, make the project pencil. Which is, as we know, in today’s construction price, it’s pretty hard to make new projects. Pencil.

Suzanne: [00:08:32] So with that the press center, that particular hotel, by any chance, was there any old unique finds or equipment that was left by that you could integrate into the design elements or display. I know there was a great firefighter firefighter house that found about 20 antique fire hydrants that they put into their property.

Jim: [00:08:56] So yeah, there wasn’t a lot, but one of the best features was was an old heavy duty industrial scale that was kind of flush with the grade. And they actually used the scale as a means to weigh the paper that would come into the right, come into the facility. That would be these big reams of paper, and they paid for the paper by weight. And so this big scale was going to be thrown out. I said, no, no, no, no, no. Everybody that’s in the gym wants to know what they weigh. Let’s move the thing over to the gym. And so we did. And so and it’s awesome. But here’s this big, huge old industrial scale that sits in the fitness room and it, it’s, it’s a great feature.

Suzanne: [00:09:38] Now see, I thought you were going to say we could pay for a room based on how much we weigh.

Glenn: [00:09:46] I think they Yeah, I remember the the heart attack grill in Vegas. If you were over £300, your the meal is free. I used to, I used to carry a couple of friends on my back in order to be able to get a hamburger.

Suzanne: [00:09:57] Or you could be the first hotel that would actually weigh the dogs when they come in for the pet policy. When we put you know, your dog has to weigh this amount. We don’t weigh the dog.

Jim: [00:10:06] Right. Right.

Suzanne: [00:10:07] Now you have a chance.

Jim: [00:10:08] Yeah. The monument, the Monument Hotel has a really old cool vault. And so we’re, we’re doing a wellness center in the lower level of that building, and we’re putting kind of a relaxation room in there that we’re going to call the vault.

Glenn: [00:10:24] I thought you, I thought you were going to say if you go try to grab a doughnut, they lock you in there. No. Well.

Jim: [00:10:31] One of the things that I think was always funny about that is that this this enormous big door, I mean, you know, like two feet thick weighs a couple of tons. Yeah. And when you open that, there’s a second door behind it. Can you imagine the thief that opens and finally breaks through the big door and says, oh, my God, that was just the first of two vault doors. I can’t imagine.

Glenn: [00:10:52] That’s funny. That sounds like it would be in like a 1990s Leslie Nielsen spoof comedy or something like that. That’s great. I love that you’re able to take those characteristics and then turn them into things that will generate revenue, but also interest and create character. How do you go about thinking about blending? What is there with what guests want today to try to find something cohesive and comfortable?

Jim: [00:11:24] No. Great question, Glenn. And again, back to the The Monument Hotel project. It doesn’t have a particularly large floor plate. So our kind of lobby is also the front desk check in area. It’s also our food and beverage. So the old teller counter, because it was a bank from day one and still operated as a bank when we when we acquired the building, it had a beautiful old marble teller counter. And so we’re obviously repurposing that. And that’s going to become the bar. We’ve got to build this cool new bar back behind it. But the actual marble counter that was the teller counter from 1910 is going to be a place where you’re going to belly up and grab yourself a cocktail.

Glenn: [00:12:06] Are you charging the same prices as 1910? When I’m planning. Probably not planning summer travel. Okay. Darn. But maybe not. Maybe. So how do you how do you kind of figure out then the the mix of what’s going to make a pro project work, right? Because I know you have the vision to see that an area will come back, but what’s really the process that you’re thinking about? What are some of the, the drivers that you see, not just to make it something affordable to build, but then be in operational black as well.

Jim: [00:12:42] Yeah. And you know, we have at fathom, we have a development company as well as a hotel management company. And I think a lot of times it’s really helpful for the developer to really understand what the functionality of a hotel really needs to be afterwards, right? So that’s, I think that kind of relationship between the two is really helpful. But, you know, getting into these old buildings, as we talked about some of the challenges with environmental remediation. But one of the first things I’m really looking at is the kind of overall form of the building. You know, these older buildings, kind of pre-war buildings, they didn’t have great Hvac in those.

Glenn: [00:13:17] Yeah.

Jim: [00:13:17] And if they had any. Yeah. And they didn’t have great lighting. So the buildings typically are narrower and they tend to lay out quite well as hotel build as a double loaded corridor type hotel. So looking at the kind of layout of a hotel of that building and how that works to, to get an efficient layout of space and also looking at the structural integrity of these buildings. That’s a pretty key one too, because you can spend an awful lot of money chasing things that you don’t see as the guest. And so you really want to try to evaluate, you know, am I going to spend millions of dollars on this building redoing the structure that is kind of not giving me this amazing experience for my hotel guests when they come and check in. Those are hard projects to make work.

Glenn: [00:14:02] Thank you for saying that. I see too many projects that it seems like the designer was not involved in them. Yeah.

Jim: [00:14:09] You know, you know, I, I have a little bit of a design sense myself, but I really do have to credit you know, some great interior design firms and architects that we’ve worked with on our projects along the way. So we do try to go reach out and use really creative talent. And I think our job as the developer and the hotel management company is to really push those consultants, whether it’s the lighting designer or the kitchen designer or all these, you know, acoustic designers to really be thinking about, you know, what kind of experience are we creating for the guest and really get them to really be creative and thoughtful. That’s really one of our jobs.

Glenn: [00:14:46] Our brains are working very parallel. So give me that. Give me the story of that vault. It’s a well, you’re making it a wellness thing, but you’re sitting in there. How do you think about how that space should be activated and why does it become that and not something else?

Jim: [00:15:03] Yeah. Well, we we did it one stage. Think about turning us putting a speakeasy down there.

Glenn: [00:15:08] Which is I think is the natural, the natural, the natural one.

Jim: [00:15:11] Yeah, yeah. You know, there’s this obviously heavy trend towards wellness and taking care of ourselves and, and even less so about drinking a lot of alcohol these days, the younger generation. But we decided to do a wellness area down there. And, you know, the, the vault is a little bit constricted space wise. And so one of the things we thought about was really creating this relaxation area. And so we created these salt panels which are illuminated. So you get this really cool kind of.

Glenn: [00:15:41] Yes, I’ve seen that.

Jim: [00:15:42] Color that you’d see with the lighting behind the salt panels. And it really created a quiet relaxation room.

Glenn: [00:15:49] And I’m sure you’re using like like Himalayan pink salt or something like that, right?

Jim: [00:15:54] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. So we go, of course, we’ve got a spa consultant that’s helped us think through the, the rest of the programming from, you know, we’ve got a sauna, we’ve got a cold plunge, we’ve got experiential shower, we have a steam room. So some of the other features you would find in a typical spa. And the salt vault really was kind of a place to have a relaxation salt vault experience.

Glenn: [00:16:16] I mean, for all of it except the cold plunge, get that up to like 86. I’m in.

Jim: [00:16:22] Yeah. Hot tub instead, right.

Glenn: [00:16:24] Yeah. That’s what I like.

Suzanne: [00:16:26] I think we should invite Glenn for the opening and then make him do the cold plunge live.

Jim: [00:16:32] We gotta time him and see how long he can stay in it.

Glenn: [00:16:35] Yeah. I’ll be like, my cat’s in your water. All right. Suzanne, what do you got? Ask Jim over here. I’ve been talking too much.

Suzanne: [00:16:43] So you had a unique career. When you got started in the sailing world, as you mentioned. And I would love to hear about how some of those lessons that you learned being an athlete has helped keep your team together and drive forward in what you do now.

Glenn: [00:17:04] And so everybody knows he was on the Olympic team in Barcelona in 1992, which is really cool. The closest I got to Olympic status was I saw Grateful Dead shows in three different cities in like a week.

Jim: [00:17:18] An Olympic effort.

Glenn: [00:17:19] Yeah. But so.

Jim: [00:17:22] You.

Glenn: [00:17:22] Know, you did the real work.

Jim: [00:17:23] Yeah. Background of sailing. I was fortunate enough to make the Olympic team and win a silver medal there.

Glenn: [00:17:28] That’s awesome.

Jim: [00:17:29] A really cool place to be for that and great experience. And then went on to do a couple of America’s Cup campaigns as well. Won and lost the America’s Cup. So you know, at the end of the day, one of the things that sailing taught me was, you know, one being very goal oriented, number one, and always kind of, you know, looking for continuous improvement. And two was one of the things you would do in the sailing world is a lot of kind of project management and, you know, doing logistics and organization and that skill, that of kind of following things through organizationally, I think is something that really parlayed very well into the real estate world. So, you know, I think what I try to do is, you know, help motivate our team members, make sure they’ve got great goals that are reasonable and realistic and that they’ve got kind of milestones that they can check in on and see how they’re doing. And, you know, my, my job is to kind of keep this plate spinning, if you will. You know, I’m just up there trying to keep every everything happening. You know, trying to create new business development opportunities for us on both the development side for hotels as well as management contracts on, on the hospitality side.

Suzanne: [00:18:42] Great. Love it. So what are some of the new visions or ideas that you have percolating for the future?

Jim: [00:18:50] Well, you know, it’s with high construction costs today, it’s a little tricky to go out and go do a bunch of ground up development.

Glenn: [00:18:58] Oh, that’s true. And that’s why conversions, generally speaking, are where it’s at for developers and investors. Exactly.

Jim: [00:19:05] Yeah. So we, you know, like the Monument Hotel, which is a historic tax credit conversion. We’re looking at other opportunities like that. We started doing some of these kind of smaller, I would call them apart hotel type projects. We’re involved with two of them. We manage two of them, the Weldon Hotel and the Evelina Hotel, which are small projects. They were also historic tax credit gut rehabs as well. And these are kind of very simple. No front desk you know, they’re really almost a short term rental type thing, but we, we permitted them actually as hotels and, and, and operate them with a fairly thin staff. So that’s one of the kind of new directions that we’ve been going. I also am really keen on trying to further look into these prefabricated cabins in these really unique, beautiful locations as resorts. There’s quite a few around through the Berkshires and the Catskills for sure. There’s a lot of places in New England that I think there’s opportunities to, you know, buy an old summer camp or some really cool space like that where you can put these really cool cabins and create, you know, kind of a lodge building that creates the food and beverage components.

Jim: [00:20:19] And these beautiful views. We could even do a cold plunge, Glenn, if you want to.

Glenn: [00:20:23] I bet you you you know me. I’m going to tell you to go to hell. But other than that one piece of advice. If camp Crystal Lake in New Jersey comes up for sale, don’t. Don’t buy that place. They’ve got a masked serial killer. But other than that, I think you’re going to be. You’re going to be fine. I love that idea. And last year, 2025, at the lodging conference Marriott was talking about their outdoor collection that they have and they had all these different types of, of concepts that you could do. And then I was at the Iarpa event and I was in like a giant wagon that was turned into a room. So there’s so many different things that you could do, Jim, that are of that place that I think will be really nice. And it plays into a huge trend.

Jim: [00:21:11] Yeah, I, I think there’s a, an opportunity to continue to grow that side of the business in a really big way. You know, yeah, people are looking for unique experiences. That’s why, you know, boutique hotels have really taken off. You know, gosh, in the last 20 years, I mean, they don’t want to just necessarily stay at a courtyard or a Hampton Inn, Hilton Garden Inn and say, am I in the Red room or the Blue Room? They want to know. They want to know where they are. They want the they want the hotel to give them an experience that’s connected with the local community, the local vibe. If it’s a foodie scene you know, they’re not looking for just your cookie cutter hotel anymore. And I think that the there is an opportunity to really expand a lot into that kind of resort, unique outdoor, you know, embrace people embracing the outdoors in nature and taking care of yourselves like saunas and spas and things like that as well. The wellness trend is, is obviously continuing to grow and I think is going to continue doing that.

Glenn: [00:22:06] It is going to continue to grow. And for those of you who don’t believe us, I mean, our population is getting older. I’m not going and partying for Grateful Dead shows anymore. I’m looking to. I’m looking to get some yoga moves in and go to bed early and not drink too much. So there’s a lot, there’s a lot of that going on. And as you mentioned earlier, Jim the younger population is changing as well. And this is a great time to reconceive and rethink about everything that we do. So a question I have for you, Jim, is you’re creating all these amazing properties, but what do you think about branding them? I say, I saw you you partnered with some brands. Is that important or can you do an independent hotel? What’s kind of your philosophy behind that?

Jim: [00:22:52] Yeah. I mean, I think it’s really depends on the market. That market is and how many keys you have. Right. Interesting. We, we on the Monument Hotel, we decided to go without, you know, the Marriott Hiltons of the world, but we only have 103 keys. So it’s right. It’s a smaller property. You know, you start getting into a, a tertiary market like Portland, Maine would, would be. Yeah. And you build 200 plus keys. You absolutely better have a franchise to help drive the demand. You know, whether it’s a bon Voyage or Hilton Honors, you know that we all know there’s points junkies who just love who love those things. And particularly in the off season in markets like this, where the business travelers are really the heavy point junkies. You need them to help fill fill room.

Glenn: [00:23:38] So yeah, I totally get you. I, I’m like, I’m of mixed feelings about this because I consider myself someone who wants to stay in independent hotels. And I’m not necessarily a points junkie, but when I’m booking those hotels, my natural inclination is to stick with what I know. And I almost forget about those properties, and I should not. That’s bad. That’s really bad on on me, Suzanne, you should scold me a little bit.

Speaker 4: [00:24:04] Oh, but you know.

Jim: [00:24:06] But I. But I do think that, you know, the the big brands all realize that that’s where the trend is going. So you see it. They’re starting new brands and new collections of soft branded hotels that are leaning heavily into the boutique space. And and as you said, you know, there’s they’re also leaning heavily into that kind of camp, you know, upscale everything from the glamping to the camping mentality. So, you know, these brands now have got, so the, the big franchises, I should say, have so many brands, I don’t know, Marriott’s I think up near 40 now.

Glenn: [00:24:39] I think it’s crazy, I know, but that is definitely the world we live in. And I think the whole idea is to have something for everyone. And they keep adding these more brands. As more of these trends go, outdoors is definitely the way to go. Wellness is way to go. Jim, I’m going to ask you this because we I think you have an opinion on it. I’m, I’m saying the next big trend is what we call relational wellness, the idea of reconnecting with other human beings and stuff like that. Maybe getting rid of a little bit of technology in our lives. You mentioned at the beginning of the conversation, your your analog child and stuff like that. How do you see kind of returning to where we came kind of in the future so we could get to rebuild our personal relationships again.

Jim: [00:25:27] Yeah. No, I think that’s a great point. And I do think that we are moving that way. Yeah, you know, my, my daughters used to go to a summer camp and they don’t allow, they didn’t allow cell phones. Yeah. And they had an unbelievably great experience. And of course they did. They then they went through Covid during college and, you know, lost all these connections to this social well-being. And I think that part of the thing that is that I see that’s really successful in certain hotels is when you create this kind of almost like a co-working vibe space inside the lobby, it’s a place where people want to hang out. They want to come have their coffee, they’ll take their call, you know, with their ear buds in and you know, just kind of reconnect with people. I, yeah, too many people sat at home during Covid and lost their social skills. We need to get them all back together again.

Glenn: [00:26:16] Yeah. Or didn’t have a chance to learn them because they were in high school at the, at at the time, for example, which is very, very frustrating. How do you feel about programming these properties? So they appeal to and make money from that local community.

Jim: [00:26:33] Yeah. So I, you know, I’m always a big believer that when you’ve got these spaces in your, in your public areas, that you hopefully have got a little coffee shop or something like that, that you can actually try to generate some revenue from the life and the energy that those people can bring into your lobby. And I, and I love that I don’t feel like we need to make much money on them. I’m happy to have them because they’re creating the life and the energy of the lobby and the space. There’s nothing worse than walking into a restaurant or a dead hotel lobby and just feeling like you’re the only one around. So there’s something about having that energy there that’s really welcoming.

Glenn: [00:27:11] Point is, I agree with you. And if you look at what happened to Starbucks for, they kind of lost sight of being in that third place and they removed a lot of what made it special. Sales plummeted. And now they’re spending like, I don’t know, billions of dollars or something to put furniture back in and redesign it to make it more of a third place kind of thing again. Right.

Jim: [00:27:32] Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Glenn: [00:27:34] Yeah. Anything else that you want to add today? No, I.

Jim: [00:27:38] Was going to say one other trend I think that I’m seeing is, you know, the we’re opening this hotel called the sugar House Hotel in Winooski, Vermont, which is right next to Burlington. And the developer there that we’ve been working with is really into sustainability. So, you know, this is is shooting for Leed platinum. It’s a net zero fossil fuel hotel, the first one in the Marriott system. It’ll be a Marriott tribute, 115 keys that we’re opening that in a month. Really cool property, rooftop bar, All those great things. So I think this whole particularly younger generation is so into the concern of climate change. And we’ve got to do the right thing for the future generations that doing projects that have, you know, a bent or lean towards the whole sustainability angle, I think is also something that’s going to continue to grow.

Glenn: [00:28:28] Yeah. It’s funny. I haven’t really been talking about that for a while, because I almost take that for granted that it should be that way already. So, you know, thanks. Thanks for underscoring that, Suzanne. Got anything else for Jim over here?

Suzanne: [00:28:41] I think the projects you’ve got are really unique and interesting. I’d love to hear and see more of what you end up putting together when it comes to those cabins and lodges. That’s how I used to vacation as a family. So I feel like that’s that vintage retro experience. But when brands start thinking about that it’s going to add this new element and this new category. So I think in general it’s a great concept. So I look forward to seeing what you guys put together.

Jim: [00:29:09] Yeah. Thanks. And I, you know, the best part of some of that stuff is to go actually go experience it. You got to get a lot of experience and see what it’s all about. So I’m looking forward to doing a tour around this winter and checking out a lot of them myself.

Glenn: [00:29:21] Yeah. Awesome. Jim, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate you.

Jim: [00:29:25] Great, great to be with you, Glenn and Suzanne. Thank you so much.

Glenn: [00:29:28] Excellent. And please, please hang out. And I want to thank all of you guys for being here. But before you do that, be sure to like, share, subscribe, all of that kind of good stuff. Linkedin, you know, that’s where we’re at YouTube. Let’s try to build that a little bit more. I’m shameful. I can’t seem to get that thing going. I think I need to bring in a professional. Maybe I’ll get Jim in to do historic restoration on my YouTube page to make that movie. All right, let’s get that off. And I want to thank you all for being here once again. And remember, everybody, you’ve got one life, so blaze on and.

Speaker 4: [00:30:01] Follow your passion.

Glenn: [00:30:02] See you all next time. Right back here. I know.