Cornell Hospitality Emeritus Prof. Jan deRoos on Hotel Biz Education Benefits

00:00:00.694 --> 00:00:01.475 Looks like we've got 00:00:01.514 --> 00:00:03.956 ourselves an ultra rare 00:00:04.118 --> 00:00:06.559 threefer going on today. 00:00:06.620 --> 00:00:08.221 I know, it's exciting. 00:00:08.242 --> 00:00:10.003 Woo, let's hang out. 00:00:10.064 --> 00:00:12.045 I'm Anthony, welcome to No Vacancy Lines. 00:00:12.385 --> 00:00:13.246 That's my friend Glenn. 00:00:13.426 --> 00:00:14.167 You're watching the number 00:00:14.268 --> 00:00:15.570 one show in hospitality. 00:00:29.245 --> 00:00:29.786 Hey, everybody. 00:00:29.826 --> 00:00:30.727 Welcome to the one, 00:00:30.746 --> 00:00:33.067 the only No Vacancy Live. 00:00:33.088 --> 00:00:34.768 We got Dr. Producer Suzanne 00:00:34.789 --> 00:00:36.048 Bagnara in the house today, 00:00:36.088 --> 00:00:36.829 and I want to thank each 00:00:36.850 --> 00:00:38.250 and every one of you for 00:00:38.289 --> 00:00:39.670 spending some time with us. 00:00:39.691 --> 00:00:43.393 Yes, live today, March 13th. 00:00:43.432 --> 00:00:46.393 None of that pre-recorded nonsense today, 00:00:46.433 --> 00:00:46.914 Suzanne. 00:00:47.895 --> 00:00:50.176 No, we are in the virtual flesh. 00:00:53.273 --> 00:00:55.014 Yeah, I wish I had some virtual flesh. 00:00:55.054 --> 00:00:56.014 Maybe there'd be a lot less 00:00:56.033 --> 00:00:56.973 of it hanging off of me. 00:00:57.073 --> 00:00:59.155 It was a tough winter. 00:00:59.215 --> 00:00:59.554 Finally, 00:00:59.594 --> 00:01:00.816 the weather's starting to turn and 00:01:00.856 --> 00:01:01.795 I'm getting back out there 00:01:01.835 --> 00:01:03.697 and getting a little bit of exercise. 00:01:03.777 --> 00:01:05.677 But I was feeling like the 00:01:07.117 --> 00:01:08.677 winter doughboy over here. 00:01:09.298 --> 00:01:10.578 Yeah, well, sorry. 00:01:10.638 --> 00:01:12.039 That's why we moved to 00:01:12.078 --> 00:01:13.439 Florida from New York. 00:01:14.739 --> 00:01:16.040 So I think even our guest 00:01:16.081 --> 00:01:17.161 has that in common today. 00:01:18.057 --> 00:01:18.278 Yeah. 00:01:18.578 --> 00:01:18.837 All right. 00:01:18.897 --> 00:01:20.679 Well, everybody's moving to Florida, 00:01:20.739 --> 00:01:22.820 but I am holding firm and 00:01:22.921 --> 00:01:25.263 fast here on Long Island, 00:01:25.283 --> 00:01:26.043 New York at the Houseman 00:01:26.063 --> 00:01:27.525 Resort Pool Club Smokehouse 00:01:27.605 --> 00:01:28.566 and all that kind of stuff. 00:01:29.165 --> 00:01:30.447 How about since we're going 00:01:30.466 --> 00:01:31.688 all academic today, 00:01:31.888 --> 00:01:33.149 something I certainly did 00:01:33.209 --> 00:01:35.370 not excel at in my days, 00:01:35.490 --> 00:01:39.334 although I did finally try at the end, 00:01:39.373 --> 00:01:40.355 so it went a little bit better. 00:01:40.394 --> 00:01:41.736 But since you're the academic here, 00:01:42.096 --> 00:01:43.296 why don't you do our big 00:01:43.397 --> 00:01:44.658 introduction for today, 00:01:44.697 --> 00:01:45.519 and I'll bring in our guest. 00:01:46.254 --> 00:01:46.754 All right. 00:01:46.855 --> 00:01:49.115 So today we have the honor 00:01:49.236 --> 00:01:51.176 of bringing in a Cornell 00:01:51.277 --> 00:01:53.177 University professor emeritus, 00:01:53.596 --> 00:01:56.477 Jan DeRouche, coming with us today. 00:01:56.638 --> 00:01:57.498 Welcome. 00:01:58.159 --> 00:01:58.838 Well, welcome. 00:01:59.058 --> 00:02:00.519 I'm really pleased to be here. 00:02:00.698 --> 00:02:02.640 I'm still in the industry. 00:02:02.680 --> 00:02:04.840 I call it nose in and fingers out. 00:02:05.301 --> 00:02:06.240 I love that. 00:02:07.921 --> 00:02:09.122 I like that. 00:02:09.383 --> 00:02:09.924 That's pretty good. 00:02:09.963 --> 00:02:12.506 And I should say that he's 00:02:12.605 --> 00:02:14.146 also at the SC Johnson 00:02:14.187 --> 00:02:15.187 College of Business and the 00:02:15.247 --> 00:02:16.449 Nolan School of Hotel 00:02:16.508 --> 00:02:19.191 Administration at Cornell University. 00:02:20.312 --> 00:02:20.812 That's long. 00:02:20.872 --> 00:02:22.013 Did they give you a test on 00:02:22.073 --> 00:02:22.873 memorizing that? 00:02:22.894 --> 00:02:23.775 It reminds me what I had. 00:02:23.854 --> 00:02:25.014 The name is long. 00:02:25.716 --> 00:02:26.856 I do need to be clear. 00:02:26.877 --> 00:02:27.537 I am retired. 00:02:27.616 --> 00:02:29.338 I just do executive programs, 00:02:29.438 --> 00:02:31.139 but I stay affiliated with Cornell. 00:02:31.199 --> 00:02:31.881 I'm now actually the 00:02:31.961 --> 00:02:33.081 president of the Cornell 00:02:33.162 --> 00:02:34.842 Club for the Sarasota and 00:02:34.883 --> 00:02:35.663 Manatee Counties. 00:02:36.223 --> 00:02:38.365 oh that's pretty uh pretty 00:02:38.405 --> 00:02:39.366 cool suzanne I'm gonna let 00:02:39.385 --> 00:02:40.326 you kind of spearhead some 00:02:40.366 --> 00:02:41.287 of the conversation here 00:02:41.326 --> 00:02:43.008 today but I do want to say 00:02:43.068 --> 00:02:44.348 something about cornell is 00:02:44.389 --> 00:02:45.210 when you go to that 00:02:45.370 --> 00:02:46.971 university it seems that 00:02:47.010 --> 00:02:48.532 you've got a network for 00:02:48.651 --> 00:02:50.332 life I was told that when I 00:02:50.372 --> 00:02:51.993 did my fraternity that I 00:02:52.014 --> 00:02:52.653 was going to be able to 00:02:52.693 --> 00:02:53.474 connect with people for 00:02:53.495 --> 00:02:55.055 life no that was not true 00:02:55.295 --> 00:02:56.877 but wherever I go all the 00:02:56.937 --> 00:02:57.817 events there's always 00:02:57.896 --> 00:02:59.518 cornell get togethers and 00:02:59.538 --> 00:03:01.759 the alumni scene is super 00:03:01.819 --> 00:03:03.501 rich and super healthy all 00:03:03.520 --> 00:03:05.602 right I'll uh I'll keep it quiet now jan 00:03:08.263 --> 00:03:11.965 Well, it is super rich and super healthy. 00:03:12.004 --> 00:03:13.245 The thing you need to learn, though, 00:03:13.284 --> 00:03:14.286 is to discriminate. 00:03:14.306 --> 00:03:15.826 There's Charlie, and then there's Fred. 00:03:15.887 --> 00:03:16.727 And Charlie's going to give 00:03:16.747 --> 00:03:17.347 you good advice. 00:03:17.646 --> 00:03:19.247 And when Fred says to buy something, 00:03:19.268 --> 00:03:19.769 you sell. 00:03:20.508 --> 00:03:22.650 And you need to parse that out. 00:03:24.602 --> 00:03:25.282 That is true. 00:03:26.084 --> 00:03:27.044 But you would hope some of 00:03:27.064 --> 00:03:28.286 the people there understand 00:03:28.306 --> 00:03:29.567 the buy and the sell, 00:03:29.586 --> 00:03:31.248 particularly since our very 00:03:31.288 --> 00:03:32.210 own producer Dave is going 00:03:32.229 --> 00:03:33.611 to be coming on in a little while. 00:03:33.671 --> 00:03:34.872 Did a hotel real estate 00:03:34.913 --> 00:03:35.973 investments and asset 00:03:36.054 --> 00:03:38.757 management certificate with you, 00:03:38.836 --> 00:03:39.998 which is pretty cool. 00:03:41.584 --> 00:03:44.724 So that certificate is my labor of love. 00:03:45.965 --> 00:03:47.366 My love is teaching 00:03:47.425 --> 00:03:48.906 executive programs and I 00:03:48.966 --> 00:03:50.186 learned a lot and informed 00:03:50.225 --> 00:03:51.507 my undergraduate programs. 00:03:52.007 --> 00:03:53.766 And I took my executive 00:03:53.787 --> 00:03:55.247 programs and more and more 00:03:55.268 --> 00:03:56.348 was increasingly difficult 00:03:56.367 --> 00:03:57.108 for people to get away, 00:03:57.147 --> 00:03:58.429 especially during the pandemic. 00:03:58.508 --> 00:03:59.329 And Cornell was at the 00:03:59.368 --> 00:04:00.649 forefront of taking things 00:04:00.769 --> 00:04:01.770 and packaging them up with 00:04:01.789 --> 00:04:02.969 really nice technology. 00:04:04.290 --> 00:04:06.051 and chunking them up so that 00:04:06.132 --> 00:04:08.413 people could acquire really 00:04:08.592 --> 00:04:10.694 actionable skills that they 00:04:10.715 --> 00:04:11.675 can use in the industry. 00:04:11.694 --> 00:04:13.697 My goal is not to show 00:04:13.817 --> 00:04:15.198 people that Cornell is a 00:04:15.457 --> 00:04:16.999 place where people can learn things. 00:04:17.079 --> 00:04:18.158 It's to give you a set of 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:19.639 skills that you can use in 00:04:19.660 --> 00:04:21.341 your career to make money. 00:04:21.762 --> 00:04:23.603 I'm an unashamed capitalist. 00:04:26.144 --> 00:04:27.365 So maybe you could just talk 00:04:27.406 --> 00:04:28.569 to us a little bit about 00:04:28.668 --> 00:04:30.872 some of your academic and 00:04:30.932 --> 00:04:32.435 executive education type of 00:04:32.536 --> 00:04:33.999 experience for our viewers 00:04:34.059 --> 00:04:35.802 who don't know enough about 00:04:35.882 --> 00:04:36.764 your background. 00:04:37.605 --> 00:04:39.564 So my background actually 00:04:39.644 --> 00:04:41.105 started in the kitchens in 00:04:41.125 --> 00:04:42.786 a little restaurant in a week. 00:04:42.826 --> 00:04:44.985 I was a foodie and my love is food. 00:04:45.146 --> 00:04:46.466 And I got on the wrong side 00:04:46.487 --> 00:04:47.466 of the wrong professor at 00:04:47.507 --> 00:04:49.047 Cornell and had to reorient 00:04:49.086 --> 00:04:51.327 my career to the physical side. 00:04:51.367 --> 00:04:52.387 So honest to God. 00:04:52.788 --> 00:04:54.627 And so I went out and worked 00:04:54.747 --> 00:04:56.108 with now Ashford 00:04:56.149 --> 00:04:57.889 Hospitality Trust is the REIT, 00:04:59.069 --> 00:05:00.108 the Bennett family and 00:05:00.149 --> 00:05:01.470 worked for them for a while 00:05:01.529 --> 00:05:02.569 after I worked for Sheraton. 00:05:03.029 --> 00:05:05.072 Came back to Cornell about 00:05:05.072 --> 00:05:08.934 35 years ago now and taught 00:05:09.675 --> 00:05:10.636 there for a long time. 00:05:10.696 --> 00:05:11.857 My career switched from real 00:05:12.076 --> 00:05:13.798 estate or actually my 00:05:13.858 --> 00:05:16.920 wheelhouse is lodging as a 00:05:16.980 --> 00:05:18.221 physical asset to lodging 00:05:18.261 --> 00:05:19.041 as a financial asset. 00:05:19.562 --> 00:05:22.384 And so my I treat lodging as 00:05:22.704 --> 00:05:23.625 within the real estate 00:05:23.644 --> 00:05:24.745 space as what it is, 00:05:24.786 --> 00:05:26.427 a very highly risky but 00:05:26.466 --> 00:05:28.548 also highly lucrative asset 00:05:28.569 --> 00:05:31.531 class that needs a lot of 00:05:31.632 --> 00:05:32.632 care and feeding. 00:05:32.672 --> 00:05:33.872 But I know a lot about 00:05:33.913 --> 00:05:35.293 valuation and also a lot 00:05:35.314 --> 00:05:37.055 about control in terms of 00:05:37.156 --> 00:05:39.076 what you either control via lease, 00:05:39.418 --> 00:05:42.040 via franchise, via management contracts. 00:05:42.279 --> 00:05:43.261 So I wrote a book on 00:05:43.300 --> 00:05:45.221 management contracts and I 00:05:45.262 --> 00:05:47.324 have my executive programs 00:05:47.463 --> 00:05:48.745 are at Cornell now. 00:05:49.571 --> 00:05:49.730 You know, 00:05:49.771 --> 00:05:51.713 several of them on real estate as 00:05:51.773 --> 00:05:53.413 part of a larger real estate curriculum. 00:05:53.713 --> 00:05:55.074 And I still do face-to-face 00:05:55.115 --> 00:05:55.995 programs at Cornell. 00:05:56.036 --> 00:05:57.637 I do a three-day program in the summer. 00:05:58.197 --> 00:05:58.398 Wow. 00:05:58.898 --> 00:05:59.819 That's pretty cool. 00:06:00.178 --> 00:06:01.560 Perfect timing for you've 00:06:01.579 --> 00:06:02.661 relocated to Florida. 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:03.581 So perfect time for you to 00:06:03.601 --> 00:06:05.682 get out of that humidity and go up. 00:06:06.043 --> 00:06:07.064 It's actually not quite. 00:06:07.084 --> 00:06:07.223 Yeah. 00:06:09.365 --> 00:06:10.247 That year it's August. 00:06:10.846 --> 00:06:12.048 I wish we had them in August. 00:06:13.769 --> 00:06:15.430 Yeah, that's the worst. 00:06:15.471 --> 00:06:17.252 But interesting that your 00:06:17.291 --> 00:06:18.954 career has done that. 00:06:18.973 --> 00:06:20.175 What was the motivation for 00:06:20.235 --> 00:06:21.475 you to move on to the 00:06:21.815 --> 00:06:23.637 academic side of things? 00:06:23.838 --> 00:06:27.379 I had a lot of success as a 00:06:27.579 --> 00:06:29.221 graduate student teaching. 00:06:30.362 --> 00:06:32.144 One of our faculty members 00:06:32.444 --> 00:06:33.824 became physically disabled 00:06:34.125 --> 00:06:34.805 during the semester. 00:06:34.846 --> 00:06:36.627 I stood in for him to teach this course. 00:06:37.608 --> 00:06:38.468 I was always sort of, 00:06:38.889 --> 00:06:40.610 I had moved to Houston, did my work. 00:06:40.689 --> 00:06:42.230 I was on an adjunct faculty 00:06:42.269 --> 00:06:43.331 for them and taught in 00:06:43.370 --> 00:06:44.932 their programs as a sort of 00:06:44.951 --> 00:06:45.711 a guest as well. 00:06:47.673 --> 00:06:48.512 Really wanted to, 00:06:48.733 --> 00:06:50.033 I have family in upstate 00:06:50.074 --> 00:06:51.615 New York in the greater Ithaca area, 00:06:51.675 --> 00:06:52.855 always wanted to go back there. 00:06:53.115 --> 00:06:55.117 And these jobs come open 00:06:55.177 --> 00:06:56.857 about once every 10 years. 00:06:57.057 --> 00:06:57.317 And so- 00:06:58.798 --> 00:06:59.778 especially tenure track. 00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:01.560 And so it came open, I applied, 00:07:01.579 --> 00:07:03.339 I got the job and never looked back. 00:07:03.399 --> 00:07:04.021 It was the best thing to 00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:05.060 ever happen in my career. 00:07:05.081 --> 00:07:06.182 You know, 00:07:06.201 --> 00:07:07.141 you leave a little bit of money 00:07:07.201 --> 00:07:07.622 on the table, 00:07:07.661 --> 00:07:08.502 but Cornell gives you a lot 00:07:08.523 --> 00:07:10.083 of freedom to do what you want to do. 00:07:11.103 --> 00:07:16.545 And the hardest thing is, you know, 00:07:16.565 --> 00:07:18.826 you know, enormous amount about nothing. 00:07:19.466 --> 00:07:20.367 Yeah. 00:07:22.089 --> 00:07:24.514 But the people who care really care a lot. 00:07:24.934 --> 00:07:25.295 That's cool. 00:07:25.415 --> 00:07:26.156 I have the opposite. 00:07:26.196 --> 00:07:28.841 I know barely anything about everything. 00:07:28.860 --> 00:07:30.423 And that's kind of how I'm squeaking. 00:07:30.442 --> 00:07:31.223 Suzanne? 00:07:34.127 --> 00:07:35.807 It is the component of going 00:07:35.848 --> 00:07:38.108 from industry to going to academics. 00:07:38.249 --> 00:07:39.309 You do give up a lot. 00:07:39.329 --> 00:07:40.269 I think the toughest thing I 00:07:40.288 --> 00:07:42.189 had to give up was my car 00:07:42.230 --> 00:07:43.951 and my insurance as a general manager. 00:07:43.990 --> 00:07:45.050 That was one of the best perks. 00:07:45.130 --> 00:07:46.632 But honestly, 00:07:46.672 --> 00:07:48.252 the rewarding opportunity and 00:07:48.291 --> 00:07:49.892 then the exposure that you 00:07:49.913 --> 00:07:52.874 get from the opportunities 00:07:52.954 --> 00:07:55.334 to consult and do other things. 00:07:55.415 --> 00:07:56.615 And so definitely, I think 00:07:57.149 --> 00:07:58.091 Jen has had some great 00:07:58.190 --> 00:07:59.773 executive education experience. 00:07:59.793 --> 00:08:01.334 And I think that's where I 00:08:01.394 --> 00:08:03.877 really see our industry 00:08:04.538 --> 00:08:06.040 rallying and finding that 00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:07.201 level of support now. 00:08:07.341 --> 00:08:10.444 So supporting the growth in 00:08:10.464 --> 00:08:12.146 the pipeline of what we've got. 00:08:12.307 --> 00:08:13.228 Everyone is hurting for 00:08:13.247 --> 00:08:13.869 talent and these 00:08:13.908 --> 00:08:15.490 certificate programs really help 00:08:16.370 --> 00:08:18.091 people get these actionable skills and, 00:08:18.552 --> 00:08:18.872 you know, 00:08:18.932 --> 00:08:20.353 there's great programs and 00:08:20.392 --> 00:08:22.894 revenue management in marketing and, 00:08:22.913 --> 00:08:24.153 you know, 00:08:24.194 --> 00:08:25.975 and then newer programs on how 00:08:25.995 --> 00:08:27.654 to automate these with AI. 00:08:28.134 --> 00:08:28.596 There's some, 00:08:28.995 --> 00:08:30.175 just some fabulous things 00:08:30.396 --> 00:08:32.756 where the certificates, I mean, 00:08:32.817 --> 00:08:34.038 I'm watching my, my, 00:08:34.298 --> 00:08:35.337 my daughter just recently 00:08:35.378 --> 00:08:37.698 graduated from George Washington. 00:08:37.739 --> 00:08:38.839 Her degree is worth a lot 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:39.860 less than my other two 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:42.321 daughters who are another 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:43.380 generation older than her. 00:08:43.980 --> 00:08:45.883 And I just see the, she needs to, 00:08:46.143 --> 00:08:47.322 and she's already going 00:08:47.364 --> 00:08:48.403 back and acquiring skills. 00:08:49.365 --> 00:08:52.547 I'm paying for two college 00:08:52.567 --> 00:08:53.267 educations right now. 00:08:53.307 --> 00:08:55.729 So that's really encouraging to hear. 00:08:55.828 --> 00:08:56.229 Bless you. 00:08:56.710 --> 00:08:57.269 Yeah. 00:08:57.350 --> 00:08:57.590 I'm sorry. 00:08:57.610 --> 00:08:58.510 I didn't mean to cut you off. 00:08:59.500 --> 00:09:01.221 No, it's lifelong learning, you know? 00:09:01.682 --> 00:09:03.143 Maybe one day you'll go back to school, 00:09:03.163 --> 00:09:03.342 Glenn. 00:09:04.203 --> 00:09:06.245 Yeah, well, I feel like, fortunately, 00:09:06.346 --> 00:09:07.287 we're getting educated 00:09:07.447 --> 00:09:10.509 every single day here at No Vacancy Live, 00:09:10.528 --> 00:09:11.129 talking to some of the 00:09:11.169 --> 00:09:11.910 coolest people in the 00:09:11.951 --> 00:09:12.711 hospitality business. 00:09:12.811 --> 00:09:13.792 Dan, today we're talking to you, 00:09:13.831 --> 00:09:15.813 so I'm going to be a skeptic for a second, 00:09:15.894 --> 00:09:16.094 right? 00:09:16.153 --> 00:09:17.195 Put on my skeptic hat. 00:09:18.515 --> 00:09:19.456 You were just talking about 00:09:19.596 --> 00:09:20.836 the certificates and why 00:09:20.876 --> 00:09:21.576 they're great and so many 00:09:21.596 --> 00:09:22.518 people need to hire. 00:09:22.597 --> 00:09:25.318 So tell me if I'm a kid out there, 00:09:25.339 --> 00:09:27.178 if there are so many jobs around, 00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:28.980 why do I need a certificate? 00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.201 Why can't I just go get that job? 00:09:32.041 --> 00:09:33.581 Because you are competing 00:09:33.642 --> 00:09:34.662 against a lot of other 00:09:34.682 --> 00:09:36.582 people who have practical experience, 00:09:36.982 --> 00:09:38.602 but maybe not some of the education. 00:09:38.663 --> 00:09:39.663 They haven't put it together. 00:09:39.724 --> 00:09:40.984 And you have to signal to 00:09:41.063 --> 00:09:41.625 someone who's going to 00:09:41.644 --> 00:09:43.164 employ you that you have a 00:09:43.225 --> 00:09:44.105 set of skills that are 00:09:44.206 --> 00:09:45.066 actionable right now. 00:09:45.605 --> 00:09:46.407 So what you're really saying 00:09:46.427 --> 00:09:46.947 is you're talking about 00:09:46.967 --> 00:09:47.849 getting- It's one thing to say, hi, 00:09:47.908 --> 00:09:48.330 I'm smart. 00:09:48.389 --> 00:09:48.750 Train me. 00:09:48.789 --> 00:09:49.751 I'm going to be great for 00:09:49.792 --> 00:09:51.173 you in X. And they said, well, 00:09:51.193 --> 00:09:51.854 there's someone over here 00:09:51.894 --> 00:09:53.216 that I can hire and I don't 00:09:53.255 --> 00:09:54.076 need to train them and 00:09:54.096 --> 00:09:54.958 they're ready to rock and roll. 00:09:55.663 --> 00:09:55.842 Right. 00:09:56.624 --> 00:09:56.803 Yes. 00:09:57.144 --> 00:09:57.484 I love it. 00:09:57.865 --> 00:09:58.845 That's great. 00:09:58.904 --> 00:10:00.767 That's a perfect reason for it. 00:10:01.086 --> 00:10:03.307 So how are you seeing what 00:10:03.347 --> 00:10:05.649 we learn in schools today in hospitality, 00:10:05.750 --> 00:10:07.250 undergraduate level, for example, 00:10:07.291 --> 00:10:07.831 then we could go to 00:10:07.871 --> 00:10:10.693 graduate and then beyond that, 00:10:10.933 --> 00:10:12.335 really applying to what 00:10:12.414 --> 00:10:15.376 students are doing in the real world? 00:10:17.562 --> 00:10:19.124 I think that most 00:10:19.183 --> 00:10:21.384 curriculums need to really 00:10:21.465 --> 00:10:23.346 embrace what I would call a 00:10:23.405 --> 00:10:24.307 low labor and a more 00:10:24.366 --> 00:10:26.668 automation coming into our industry. 00:10:30.317 --> 00:10:31.097 I think the restaurant 00:10:31.138 --> 00:10:32.859 industry can show us a lot. 00:10:32.938 --> 00:10:34.019 I think the airline industry 00:10:34.038 --> 00:10:34.919 can show us a lot. 00:10:35.340 --> 00:10:36.820 They're all hospitality industries. 00:10:37.279 --> 00:10:40.741 But it's basically allowing, you know, 00:10:40.782 --> 00:10:41.481 the big thing was 00:10:41.542 --> 00:10:43.663 facilitated self-service, you know, 00:10:43.743 --> 00:10:44.602 in the 80s, 90s and 00s. 00:10:44.663 --> 00:10:46.923 And then it became more, you know, 00:10:47.063 --> 00:10:48.583 we're going to call micro 00:10:48.604 --> 00:10:49.804 customization of everything 00:10:49.825 --> 00:10:51.345 was a recent trend. 00:10:51.725 --> 00:10:52.745 But I think more and more 00:10:52.784 --> 00:10:53.525 we're going to have to do. 00:10:54.745 --> 00:10:58.149 uh, not more with less, uh, human beings. 00:10:58.208 --> 00:10:59.049 It's going to be working out 00:10:59.070 --> 00:11:00.350 to do more and have a 00:11:00.410 --> 00:11:01.751 better experience because 00:11:01.912 --> 00:11:03.452 it is enabled by AI. 00:11:03.952 --> 00:11:05.433 And that's where I see the missing piece. 00:11:06.174 --> 00:11:07.255 And I'm glad I'm retired. 00:11:07.296 --> 00:11:08.296 Cause I'm out of ideas. 00:11:08.876 --> 00:11:09.076 Yeah. 00:11:09.297 --> 00:11:10.317 I'll tell you what, Jen, 00:11:10.357 --> 00:11:12.539 I'm that close to death. 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:13.159 I mean, 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:15.020 it's a brave new world out there and, 00:11:15.041 --> 00:11:15.221 you know, 00:11:15.282 --> 00:11:16.643 and the winners can be folks 00:11:16.722 --> 00:11:18.163 that are not traditional. 00:11:18.183 --> 00:11:19.804 There's going to be some disruption and, 00:11:19.825 --> 00:11:20.806 um, uh, 00:11:22.421 --> 00:11:24.121 People are looking for experiences now. 00:11:24.162 --> 00:11:25.243 They have enough money. 00:11:25.302 --> 00:11:26.023 When people have enough money, 00:11:26.043 --> 00:11:26.842 they throw money at things 00:11:26.863 --> 00:11:27.604 they want stuff to happen. 00:11:28.063 --> 00:11:29.164 You say you're out of ideas, 00:11:29.184 --> 00:11:30.004 but you could just use 00:11:30.085 --> 00:11:31.625 OpenAI and just type in, 00:11:31.666 --> 00:11:33.486 give me more ideas, and then you'll be, 00:11:33.506 --> 00:11:33.927 you know. 00:11:34.347 --> 00:11:35.868 Yeah, but it's not a magic bullet. 00:11:35.888 --> 00:11:36.229 I mean, 00:11:36.308 --> 00:11:38.629 it's not like you put frosting on 00:11:38.690 --> 00:11:40.551 it and all of a sudden it tastes better. 00:11:42.451 --> 00:11:44.153 I think you have to really 00:11:44.192 --> 00:11:45.133 think about how this gets 00:11:45.173 --> 00:11:46.394 incorporated into the whole 00:11:46.474 --> 00:11:47.654 service offering that you have. 00:11:48.131 --> 00:11:50.693 I really agree with you on that. 00:11:50.934 --> 00:11:54.717 And I always like to tell people up front, 00:11:54.857 --> 00:11:57.520 I am working with an AI company right now, 00:11:57.561 --> 00:11:58.441 helping them develop a 00:11:58.461 --> 00:11:59.982 strategy for hospitality 00:12:00.062 --> 00:12:01.884 and creating partnerships for them. 00:12:02.585 --> 00:12:04.947 But what I really see AI for, 00:12:05.126 --> 00:12:06.207 and I'm curious as to how 00:12:06.227 --> 00:12:07.028 this is going to play out 00:12:07.109 --> 00:12:09.812 at the educational portion of it, 00:12:10.172 --> 00:12:11.352 I think you were talking about... 00:12:12.874 --> 00:12:14.554 getting rid of jobs that we 00:12:14.596 --> 00:12:15.916 don't necessarily need 00:12:16.136 --> 00:12:17.998 anymore and allowing people 00:12:18.097 --> 00:12:20.259 to be people as opposed to 00:12:20.299 --> 00:12:22.061 looking over documents and 00:12:22.201 --> 00:12:23.581 spreadsheets and stuff like that. 00:12:23.961 --> 00:12:25.003 Nothing against your amazing 00:12:25.062 --> 00:12:26.323 real estate spreadsheeting program. 00:12:28.325 --> 00:12:29.605 So how do you see schools 00:12:29.666 --> 00:12:31.166 maybe trying to adapt to 00:12:31.245 --> 00:12:32.667 this new reality that we're 00:12:32.706 --> 00:12:33.626 so tech forward? 00:12:34.006 --> 00:12:36.748 And again, nothing against academia, 00:12:37.067 --> 00:12:38.128 but a lot of those people 00:12:38.168 --> 00:12:39.288 have been in schools for a 00:12:39.349 --> 00:12:40.708 while and are not seeing 00:12:40.749 --> 00:12:41.668 the rapid change of 00:12:41.729 --> 00:12:44.470 technology at the operations level. 00:12:44.750 --> 00:12:46.591 So I came into school in a 00:12:46.650 --> 00:12:49.591 generation where PCs were being adopted, 00:12:49.851 --> 00:12:50.172 right? 00:12:50.211 --> 00:12:51.611 And that was a technology 00:12:51.672 --> 00:12:53.092 that the old car didn't get. 00:12:54.293 --> 00:12:55.153 And it really changed 00:12:55.234 --> 00:12:56.174 productivity and really 00:12:56.215 --> 00:12:57.254 changed the way things are done. 00:12:57.375 --> 00:12:59.436 And VisiCalc was like, oh, my God, 00:12:59.456 --> 00:13:00.376 the first spreadsheet, right? 00:13:01.658 --> 00:13:02.857 Now we have the old guard 00:13:02.918 --> 00:13:03.678 that knows how to do the 00:13:03.698 --> 00:13:04.839 spreadsheeting really well. 00:13:05.038 --> 00:13:06.840 And now it's going to be the 00:13:07.400 --> 00:13:10.101 person knows the script to 00:13:10.142 --> 00:13:12.222 tell their little co-pilot, 00:13:12.624 --> 00:13:13.984 built me a spreadsheet that does da, da, 00:13:14.004 --> 00:13:14.705 da, da, da, da, da. 00:13:15.585 --> 00:13:17.166 and show me how sensitive it 00:13:17.245 --> 00:13:19.067 is to interest rates, cap rates, 00:13:19.508 --> 00:13:25.692 exit cap rates, and the change in, say, 00:13:25.772 --> 00:13:26.251 ADR over time. 00:13:26.711 --> 00:13:28.974 And you'll get that all done 00:13:29.193 --> 00:13:30.754 for you in a pivot table, ready to go. 00:13:31.575 --> 00:13:32.956 You need to now know how to 00:13:32.995 --> 00:13:34.537 take that and leverage that 00:13:34.836 --> 00:13:36.158 and present it in a way 00:13:36.197 --> 00:13:37.499 that you can make information, 00:13:37.839 --> 00:13:38.499 diagnose it, 00:13:38.538 --> 00:13:39.559 make sure the numbers are right, 00:13:39.580 --> 00:13:40.941 but you have the bare bones 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:41.441 of it in front. 00:13:41.461 --> 00:13:42.701 You don't have to build it anymore. 00:13:43.447 --> 00:13:44.687 So the, 00:13:45.067 --> 00:13:46.308 but what you need to do is make 00:13:46.328 --> 00:13:47.409 sure the black block isn't 00:13:47.470 --> 00:13:48.669 a black box and you don't 00:13:48.690 --> 00:13:49.730 know what's going on inside 00:13:50.291 --> 00:13:51.591 because black boxes can 00:13:51.611 --> 00:13:52.533 blow up pretty badly. 00:13:52.993 --> 00:13:53.173 Yeah. 00:13:54.014 --> 00:13:55.534 So one of the things, Glenn, 00:13:55.654 --> 00:13:57.596 I just came off of a conference last week, 00:13:57.875 --> 00:13:59.998 um, from I create the sex of Federation. 00:14:00.057 --> 00:14:01.177 And that was really one of 00:14:01.238 --> 00:14:02.899 our hot topics was AI and 00:14:02.918 --> 00:14:03.759 the integration of 00:14:04.264 --> 00:14:05.884 how we as educators in 00:14:05.964 --> 00:14:07.325 hospitality specifically 00:14:07.384 --> 00:14:08.585 can start to infiltrate 00:14:08.625 --> 00:14:10.465 that into our classes and our projects. 00:14:10.524 --> 00:14:14.326 And so there were a few specific examples, 00:14:14.405 --> 00:14:16.527 but it's still such a new 00:14:16.626 --> 00:14:18.386 piece that we're working through. 00:14:18.486 --> 00:14:20.027 And from an educator standpoint, 00:14:20.267 --> 00:14:21.027 not gonna lie, 00:14:21.628 --> 00:14:24.988 we have to almost self become the expert. 00:14:25.408 --> 00:14:27.109 So then we can think about 00:14:27.208 --> 00:14:28.969 it of how are we gonna take 00:14:29.009 --> 00:14:30.308 how the industry is using it? 00:14:30.389 --> 00:14:31.409 And so here's a great 00:14:31.450 --> 00:14:33.029 opportunity for partnering. 00:14:33.590 --> 00:14:35.211 with our industry folks if 00:14:35.311 --> 00:14:37.231 you are using it and 00:14:37.312 --> 00:14:38.572 leveraging that tool 00:14:39.052 --> 00:14:40.173 connect with your local 00:14:40.212 --> 00:14:41.774 hospitality educators 00:14:41.874 --> 00:14:43.335 because then we can create 00:14:43.414 --> 00:14:44.674 assignments and activities 00:14:44.754 --> 00:14:45.916 that we can put into the 00:14:45.956 --> 00:14:47.836 classroom experience to 00:14:47.937 --> 00:14:49.238 generate that propelled 00:14:49.337 --> 00:14:51.318 young individual with with 00:14:51.438 --> 00:14:53.019 using these tools we are 00:14:53.099 --> 00:14:56.221 still a ways out from this yeah 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:58.081 And I think it'll change the 00:14:58.121 --> 00:14:59.302 nature of what an assignment is. 00:14:59.562 --> 00:15:01.023 So maybe the assignment is 00:15:01.202 --> 00:15:02.423 group as a class. 00:15:02.543 --> 00:15:04.144 You need to figure out how 00:15:04.164 --> 00:15:05.666 to make me an app that does 00:15:05.785 --> 00:15:07.886 this by the end of the term. 00:15:08.466 --> 00:15:09.248 And you figure it out 00:15:09.947 --> 00:15:10.969 because I think the 00:15:10.989 --> 00:15:11.948 students will be dragging 00:15:11.989 --> 00:15:13.049 some of the faculty along. 00:15:13.897 --> 00:15:14.937 Quite possibly, 00:15:14.977 --> 00:15:15.619 as long as they're 00:15:15.658 --> 00:15:16.700 comfortable in doing that. 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.663 Yeah, and that takes a leap, you know, 00:15:19.722 --> 00:15:20.644 it takes a faculty member 00:15:20.663 --> 00:15:21.504 that's really open to 00:15:21.585 --> 00:15:23.726 question on their own expertise. 00:15:23.947 --> 00:15:24.807 To me, it's like a tool, 00:15:24.847 --> 00:15:26.048 especially if we're a tool, right? 00:15:26.089 --> 00:15:27.009 We have a new tool, 00:15:27.049 --> 00:15:28.270 we need to learn how to use a tool. 00:15:28.630 --> 00:15:31.995 It's not a new, it's not knowledge per se, 00:15:32.054 --> 00:15:33.976 but it's a tool that I think can help 00:15:34.691 --> 00:15:35.692 really drive a lot of 00:15:35.731 --> 00:15:37.153 productivity gains as well 00:15:37.293 --> 00:15:39.235 as product offering. 00:15:39.855 --> 00:15:42.538 And I'm sure one of the 00:15:42.577 --> 00:15:44.019 concerns that you and Dr. 00:15:44.038 --> 00:15:45.500 Producer Suzanne have is, 00:15:45.660 --> 00:15:47.562 is this really a tool or is 00:15:47.621 --> 00:15:49.844 it just of the moment over here? 00:15:50.625 --> 00:15:52.285 If we, you know, if we focus, 00:15:52.306 --> 00:15:55.068 if we focus on something in the moment, 00:15:55.109 --> 00:15:56.129 sometimes it doesn't pan out. 00:15:56.169 --> 00:15:57.551 Like we were talking blockchain, 00:15:57.591 --> 00:16:00.133 blockchain for crazy, right? 00:16:00.493 --> 00:16:02.315 But now nobody's really talking about, 00:16:02.595 --> 00:16:04.635 about that, for example. 00:16:04.655 --> 00:16:05.476 We're talking about blockchain. 00:16:05.496 --> 00:16:06.756 They may be talking less about crypto, 00:16:06.797 --> 00:16:07.437 although the crypto 00:16:07.457 --> 00:16:11.700 exchanges have changed the crypto ETFs. 00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:13.000 Seriously, 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:15.381 I jumped into a little crypto 00:16:15.442 --> 00:16:16.062 for the heck of it, 00:16:16.162 --> 00:16:19.144 and it's up 60% over the last month, 00:16:19.583 --> 00:16:21.205 which is amazing. 00:16:21.245 --> 00:16:22.926 I mean, 60% from what I invested. 00:16:22.985 --> 00:16:25.647 We all know the kid that 00:16:25.687 --> 00:16:26.567 everybody was shaking their 00:16:26.606 --> 00:16:28.708 head 12 years ago. 00:16:28.729 --> 00:16:29.788 What are you doing? 00:16:30.188 --> 00:16:31.450 Oh, yeah, I bought this mining rig. 00:16:31.860 --> 00:16:34.280 And now they've got a nice 00:16:34.321 --> 00:16:34.961 place in Florida. 00:16:35.302 --> 00:16:35.721 Seriously. 00:16:36.381 --> 00:16:36.763 Seriously. 00:16:37.423 --> 00:16:38.403 If I had just done that when 00:16:38.423 --> 00:16:40.904 Silicon Valley had done it on HBO, 00:16:41.144 --> 00:16:43.926 I could have retired by now, like you, 00:16:44.285 --> 00:16:46.527 and had that nice house in Florida. 00:16:46.868 --> 00:16:48.207 But I wouldn't have earned 00:16:48.227 --> 00:16:49.469 that spiffy Cornell cap 00:16:49.509 --> 00:16:50.730 that you have behind you. 00:16:51.730 --> 00:16:54.811 How do you think you're alluding to, 00:16:54.831 --> 00:16:56.692 I think what we're talking about, 00:16:56.711 --> 00:16:58.052 changing the way we teach? 00:16:58.153 --> 00:16:59.452 Because if kids could go and 00:16:59.472 --> 00:17:00.833 they could do stuff with AI, 00:17:00.894 --> 00:17:02.774 how do you continue to challenge them? 00:17:03.174 --> 00:17:04.075 How do you make sure they're 00:17:04.255 --> 00:17:06.496 actually learning and not 00:17:06.536 --> 00:17:08.257 just parroting back what you want to hear, 00:17:08.277 --> 00:17:08.416 Jim? 00:17:09.484 --> 00:17:09.765 That's a, 00:17:10.506 --> 00:17:12.067 that I think is the question of 00:17:12.106 --> 00:17:12.626 the moment. 00:17:12.807 --> 00:17:15.068 And for me, it would be a combination of, 00:17:15.088 --> 00:17:16.189 I would call it some group work, 00:17:16.209 --> 00:17:17.829 but then some individual work on, 00:17:17.869 --> 00:17:20.251 you know, can they integrate? 00:17:20.672 --> 00:17:20.872 To me, 00:17:20.932 --> 00:17:22.212 it's always about the student's 00:17:22.252 --> 00:17:25.035 ability not to recite facts per se, 00:17:25.894 --> 00:17:27.155 but to weave those facts 00:17:27.175 --> 00:17:27.997 together in a meaningful 00:17:28.017 --> 00:17:29.458 way where they can do the 00:17:29.498 --> 00:17:30.377 integration and they can 00:17:30.417 --> 00:17:32.819 understand what something means. 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:34.560 And I think, I still think the best, 00:17:35.467 --> 00:17:37.608 way in terms of my world is 00:17:38.068 --> 00:17:40.010 is an offering memo give 00:17:40.030 --> 00:17:40.971 students an offering memo 00:17:41.892 --> 00:17:43.413 and uh what what point what 00:17:43.453 --> 00:17:44.173 price would you pay for 00:17:44.213 --> 00:17:46.596 this right that's 00:17:46.635 --> 00:17:48.478 interesting yeah you just 00:17:48.498 --> 00:17:49.378 give them an old one and 00:17:49.598 --> 00:17:51.180 you know just uh that and 00:17:51.941 --> 00:17:53.041 um it's an individual 00:17:53.082 --> 00:17:55.683 assignment that uh and but 00:17:55.703 --> 00:17:56.304 they have to build their 00:17:56.324 --> 00:17:57.525 own spreadsheets and then 00:17:57.545 --> 00:17:59.186 but the data is in the om in the offering 00:17:59.962 --> 00:18:00.103 Yeah, 00:18:00.143 --> 00:18:02.885 when I was an adjunct professor at NYU, 00:18:03.006 --> 00:18:04.528 I did PR and advertising 00:18:04.567 --> 00:18:05.788 and consumer behavior classes. 00:18:05.808 --> 00:18:06.951 So for PR and advertising, 00:18:06.990 --> 00:18:07.991 I would do a final project 00:18:08.031 --> 00:18:10.193 where they had to create a 00:18:10.253 --> 00:18:12.777 resort and then figure out 00:18:12.836 --> 00:18:13.897 how they would market it 00:18:14.159 --> 00:18:16.181 and advertise it to the public. 00:18:16.201 --> 00:18:17.001 And that's not something you 00:18:17.041 --> 00:18:18.222 necessarily- That's great integration, 00:18:18.403 --> 00:18:18.643 yeah. 00:18:18.763 --> 00:18:18.923 Right. 00:18:19.480 --> 00:18:21.382 And I try to do that here on 00:18:21.422 --> 00:18:22.483 this program where we take 00:18:22.644 --> 00:18:23.904 ideas from all these 00:18:23.944 --> 00:18:25.467 different places and kind 00:18:25.507 --> 00:18:27.269 of pull them together and 00:18:27.309 --> 00:18:28.871 hopefully have some unique 00:18:28.891 --> 00:18:30.232 and interesting perspective 00:18:30.313 --> 00:18:32.655 that could drive culture or 00:18:32.736 --> 00:18:34.778 drive innovation or something like that. 00:18:35.038 --> 00:18:35.479 And ideally, 00:18:35.499 --> 00:18:36.400 that's what you're probably 00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:37.442 trying to achieve too, right? 00:18:38.188 --> 00:18:39.048 Yeah, I am. 00:18:39.088 --> 00:18:40.811 I mean, at some level, 00:18:43.174 --> 00:18:44.596 there's this magical thing 00:18:44.636 --> 00:18:45.877 called a promote structure. 00:18:46.118 --> 00:18:47.800 It's what the private equity 00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:48.922 firms are very, 00:18:48.981 --> 00:18:50.443 very good at is once I 00:18:50.463 --> 00:18:52.606 deliver a certain level of returns to my 00:18:53.428 --> 00:18:54.208 limited partners. 00:18:55.028 --> 00:18:55.209 I, 00:18:56.148 --> 00:18:58.348 as the general partner and the promoter 00:18:58.509 --> 00:19:00.009 of this venture, 00:19:00.430 --> 00:19:01.690 I now start to take a super 00:19:01.710 --> 00:19:02.589 share of the returns. 00:19:03.049 --> 00:19:06.330 And you can do this on a very small basis. 00:19:06.510 --> 00:19:06.810 Actually, 00:19:06.830 --> 00:19:08.051 I'm a limited partner in a few 00:19:08.372 --> 00:19:09.231 deals with a former 00:19:09.271 --> 00:19:11.932 Marriott exec that's on their own now, 00:19:11.972 --> 00:19:12.952 then they're very successful. 00:19:14.413 --> 00:19:15.855 And I'm very happy with the 00:19:15.954 --> 00:19:17.336 deal because their promote 00:19:17.355 --> 00:19:20.199 structure is not nearly what, say, 00:19:20.259 --> 00:19:21.700 Blackstone or Apollo does. 00:19:21.720 --> 00:19:23.101 Basically, what those folks, 00:19:23.401 --> 00:19:25.363 once they get you to their, say, 16%, 00:19:25.363 --> 00:19:27.404 they start taking like 90% of the upside. 00:19:29.346 --> 00:19:29.526 Right. 00:19:29.826 --> 00:19:33.028 Where I think, well, because they can't. 00:19:33.589 --> 00:19:34.309 Oh, yeah. 00:19:34.349 --> 00:19:35.711 I think in a smaller scale, 00:19:35.771 --> 00:19:37.212 the sort of you start to 00:19:37.232 --> 00:19:38.814 say you put in 10 percent, 00:19:39.115 --> 00:19:40.796 then you start taking 25 00:19:40.796 --> 00:19:43.278 percent or 30 a third of the upside. 00:19:43.618 --> 00:19:46.020 That starts to work really well. 00:19:46.861 --> 00:19:47.981 But really, I think it's. 00:19:48.883 --> 00:19:52.126 It's not only good and fair at some level, 00:19:52.606 --> 00:19:53.867 but it's incredibly good 00:19:53.907 --> 00:19:54.729 corporate governance 00:19:54.808 --> 00:19:56.391 because you don't get paid 00:19:56.872 --> 00:19:58.093 the upside unless you've 00:19:58.133 --> 00:19:59.674 delivered the goods to your investors. 00:20:01.236 --> 00:20:02.617 And I just think it's 00:20:02.698 --> 00:20:04.400 fabulous governance without 00:20:04.440 --> 00:20:06.781 having to have so much legal paper on it. 00:20:06.821 --> 00:20:08.063 You just incentivize people 00:20:08.083 --> 00:20:09.164 to do the right thing through money. 00:20:09.792 --> 00:20:09.972 Yeah, 00:20:10.594 --> 00:20:11.775 I think that's always the best way to 00:20:11.815 --> 00:20:12.035 do it. 00:20:12.596 --> 00:20:12.776 Jan, 00:20:12.796 --> 00:20:13.916 I've been like promoting 00:20:14.218 --> 00:20:15.239 sustainability in our 00:20:15.439 --> 00:20:16.579 industry in a meaningful way, 00:20:16.619 --> 00:20:17.801 hopefully for the last 10 years. 00:20:17.842 --> 00:20:19.943 But I always try to say you 00:20:19.963 --> 00:20:21.986 can't do it by saying it feels good. 00:20:22.487 --> 00:20:24.228 How are owners and operators 00:20:24.268 --> 00:20:25.450 going to either make money 00:20:25.529 --> 00:20:27.451 from it or have no increase 00:20:27.511 --> 00:20:28.313 in their expenses? 00:20:28.633 --> 00:20:28.833 Right. 00:20:28.853 --> 00:20:30.154 So it's that same kind of thinking. 00:20:31.137 --> 00:20:32.057 Well, actually, 00:20:32.538 --> 00:20:34.539 I have worked with a really 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:35.740 smart young lady. 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.161 It was about six, seven years ago. 00:20:38.221 --> 00:20:40.102 She did her honors thesis on 00:20:40.162 --> 00:20:42.502 sustainability and exactly your question. 00:20:42.522 --> 00:20:43.963 And we broke it apart really simply. 00:20:44.003 --> 00:20:45.884 Value is NOI, 00:20:46.105 --> 00:20:47.726 cash flow divided by a cap rate, right? 00:20:48.105 --> 00:20:49.105 And so what's going to change? 00:20:49.465 --> 00:20:51.507 And what she found is a big 00:20:51.547 --> 00:20:52.867 piece of the sustainability 00:20:53.188 --> 00:20:54.469 story is that if you have 00:20:54.509 --> 00:20:55.449 an asset that the banks 00:20:55.489 --> 00:20:56.529 consider to be a lower risk, 00:20:57.390 --> 00:20:58.911 your cost of capital could be less. 00:20:59.590 --> 00:21:01.070 And we find it's not that 00:21:01.090 --> 00:21:02.531 much lower cost of capital 00:21:02.571 --> 00:21:03.892 to make a very meaningful 00:21:03.951 --> 00:21:05.073 difference in valuations. 00:21:05.573 --> 00:21:09.953 So I think there's some stories on the NOI, 00:21:09.973 --> 00:21:11.194 better cash flows as well. 00:21:11.934 --> 00:21:13.996 But a lower cost of capital, I think, 00:21:14.056 --> 00:21:16.056 is a really great story there. 00:21:17.116 --> 00:21:17.356 Yeah. 00:21:17.517 --> 00:21:17.876 Suzanne? 00:21:19.869 --> 00:21:21.131 Totally on point. 00:21:21.290 --> 00:21:22.590 I'm looking to see from your 00:21:22.651 --> 00:21:24.791 take in the data from a 00:21:24.852 --> 00:21:26.271 recovery standpoint coming 00:21:26.392 --> 00:21:28.772 off of COVID-19 and seeing 00:21:28.792 --> 00:21:29.573 the world recover. 00:21:29.673 --> 00:21:31.094 What are some surprises that 00:21:31.213 --> 00:21:32.713 you've seen from that data? 00:21:34.295 --> 00:21:36.836 What the biggest surprise is how 00:21:38.492 --> 00:21:39.932 not how much you could push 00:21:39.992 --> 00:21:40.693 rates but how much the 00:21:40.733 --> 00:21:42.074 industry did push rates 00:21:42.153 --> 00:21:44.575 when travel recovered um 00:21:45.015 --> 00:21:47.055 and just how elastic uh 00:21:47.134 --> 00:21:48.976 prices are in the short run 00:21:49.296 --> 00:21:50.375 when the supply is fixed 00:21:50.816 --> 00:21:51.376 and you know all the 00:21:51.396 --> 00:21:52.416 revenge trail and all that 00:21:53.237 --> 00:21:54.176 um yeah we're gonna have 00:21:54.217 --> 00:21:54.917 some tough you know 00:21:54.938 --> 00:21:56.178 comparables going forward 00:21:56.238 --> 00:21:57.617 but um that really 00:21:57.657 --> 00:21:59.259 surprised me what surprised 00:21:59.278 --> 00:22:00.919 me also is within real 00:22:00.979 --> 00:22:03.200 estate what's now toxic and what um 00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:06.142 isn't and um you know all 00:22:06.162 --> 00:22:07.383 the offices are obviously 00:22:07.423 --> 00:22:09.204 the big toxic asset now but 00:22:09.625 --> 00:22:11.406 um you know even you know 00:22:11.446 --> 00:22:12.488 warehouse stuff has gotten 00:22:12.508 --> 00:22:13.769 a little built out and you 00:22:13.808 --> 00:22:14.670 know apartments got a 00:22:14.690 --> 00:22:16.771 little built out uh during 00:22:16.811 --> 00:22:19.094 the late uh pandemic uh 00:22:19.114 --> 00:22:20.375 there's a lot of new supply 00:22:20.414 --> 00:22:22.136 so what surprised me is you 00:22:22.156 --> 00:22:23.038 know you always used to say 00:22:23.077 --> 00:22:24.739 well people invest in 00:22:24.778 --> 00:22:26.701 hotels because they stink less than x 00:22:28.001 --> 00:22:30.242 um sometimes right uh 00:22:30.262 --> 00:22:31.223 they're the least stinky 00:22:31.403 --> 00:22:33.724 and um the hotels have held 00:22:33.785 --> 00:22:35.945 up really really nicely um 00:22:36.266 --> 00:22:37.586 and the you know everybody 00:22:37.707 --> 00:22:40.387 was you know what was it 00:22:40.387 --> 00:22:42.209 2011 was the fire sale that 00:22:42.249 --> 00:22:44.750 didn't happen uh 2022 was 00:22:44.789 --> 00:22:45.990 the repricing that never 00:22:46.030 --> 00:22:47.791 happened 2020 it was you 00:22:48.172 --> 00:22:50.073 know 2023 was like oh they 00:22:50.113 --> 00:22:51.614 raised interest rates the stinkers 00:22:52.634 --> 00:22:54.075 I still look at the data and 00:22:54.115 --> 00:22:56.596 I see a lot of transactions 00:22:56.635 --> 00:22:57.635 happening and new 00:22:57.655 --> 00:22:59.057 financings and the new 00:22:59.116 --> 00:23:00.817 normal is about somewhere 00:23:00.857 --> 00:23:02.057 around seven and a half, 8%. 00:23:02.057 --> 00:23:05.138 And there's still a lot of trends. 00:23:05.180 --> 00:23:06.019 And so it still works. 00:23:06.872 --> 00:23:07.071 Yeah, 00:23:07.172 --> 00:23:09.012 and we've been talking about this an 00:23:09.453 --> 00:23:10.634 awful lot. 00:23:10.654 --> 00:23:11.734 As a matter of fact, 00:23:11.934 --> 00:23:13.415 check one of our shows last 00:23:13.477 --> 00:23:14.576 week that we did live 00:23:14.616 --> 00:23:16.499 during Click7 out in 00:23:16.618 --> 00:23:18.259 California where we talked 00:23:18.460 --> 00:23:22.001 all about converting offices into hotels. 00:23:22.061 --> 00:23:23.282 I think you'll be interesting about that. 00:23:23.903 --> 00:23:25.765 Our guest, Todd Stevens, 00:23:25.805 --> 00:23:26.766 gives some really great 00:23:26.806 --> 00:23:28.567 insight on where and where 00:23:28.747 --> 00:23:30.468 not this would work. 00:23:30.768 --> 00:23:31.769 But I'll tell you, Jan – 00:23:31.949 --> 00:23:33.410 Something that did work is 00:23:34.230 --> 00:23:35.411 our very own producer, Dave, 00:23:35.451 --> 00:23:36.511 happens to be a general 00:23:36.592 --> 00:23:38.373 manager of a hotel on the 00:23:38.492 --> 00:23:40.294 east side of New York City. 00:23:40.334 --> 00:23:41.654 And he recently achieved a 00:23:41.935 --> 00:23:42.695 hotel real estate 00:23:42.736 --> 00:23:43.777 investments and asset 00:23:43.817 --> 00:23:46.038 management certificate with you. 00:23:46.117 --> 00:23:47.138 So we're going to bring him 00:23:47.378 --> 00:23:48.579 on and see if he's happy 00:23:48.619 --> 00:23:50.840 about this or he's got some choice words. 00:23:50.881 --> 00:23:52.221 So, Dave, how are you? 00:23:52.241 --> 00:23:54.884 Well, I do have some very choice words. 00:23:55.344 --> 00:23:56.664 But they're all good. 00:23:57.005 --> 00:23:57.465 Yay! 00:23:57.486 --> 00:23:58.185 They're all good. 00:23:58.226 --> 00:23:59.426 They're all good. 00:24:00.971 --> 00:24:02.673 I'm sure that my opinion was 00:24:02.792 --> 00:24:04.394 really weighing very heavily on you. 00:24:04.473 --> 00:24:04.914 That's cool. 00:24:05.194 --> 00:24:06.316 I know Dave sounds like he's 00:24:06.336 --> 00:24:08.096 at the bottom of a well right now, 00:24:08.156 --> 00:24:09.198 but we put him there unless 00:24:09.238 --> 00:24:10.638 he said nice things about the program. 00:24:10.659 --> 00:24:11.799 Yes, I apologize. 00:24:11.819 --> 00:24:13.601 But you can see I have my earbuds in, 00:24:13.661 --> 00:24:14.582 so the sound on these 00:24:14.682 --> 00:24:15.782 babies is not the best. 00:24:15.823 --> 00:24:16.903 So I'm going to talk a little louder. 00:24:16.923 --> 00:24:18.365 I'm not screaming at you. 00:24:19.025 --> 00:24:20.185 I just want to be heard so I 00:24:20.205 --> 00:24:21.547 can get above that waterline. 00:24:21.646 --> 00:24:24.890 But I wanted to come on here because, yes, 00:24:24.950 --> 00:24:25.971 I did take the certificate 00:24:26.010 --> 00:24:28.913 program facilitated by a professor, 00:24:29.700 --> 00:24:30.079 the ruse. 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:31.580 And it was spectacular. 00:24:32.182 --> 00:24:33.143 From someone that was going 00:24:33.182 --> 00:24:34.123 into this really with 00:24:34.584 --> 00:24:35.703 minimal knowledge in terms 00:24:35.763 --> 00:24:36.904 of the real estate side of it, 00:24:37.486 --> 00:24:38.385 asset management side, 00:24:38.405 --> 00:24:39.807 I had a little more experience on, 00:24:39.886 --> 00:24:40.627 but the real estate 00:24:40.647 --> 00:24:41.807 investment side had no 00:24:41.888 --> 00:24:42.808 experience whatsoever. 00:24:43.789 --> 00:24:44.911 It was a really just, 00:24:45.050 --> 00:24:46.652 I recommend it really for anybody, 00:24:46.751 --> 00:24:47.972 whether you're interested 00:24:48.032 --> 00:24:49.114 in that space or not. 00:24:49.773 --> 00:24:52.675 And because it was very digestible. 00:24:52.976 --> 00:24:53.717 Dave, why, 00:24:54.037 --> 00:24:55.857 why did you take this particular 00:24:56.057 --> 00:24:56.659 certificate? 00:24:57.397 --> 00:24:58.459 Because I'm interested in that space. 00:24:58.838 --> 00:24:59.519 Yeah, but why? 00:24:59.618 --> 00:25:00.619 Yeah, 00:25:00.660 --> 00:25:03.221 how do you see that applying to you 00:25:03.340 --> 00:25:05.423 personally and your career in general? 00:25:05.782 --> 00:25:07.324 Yeah, so I mean, obviously, you know, 00:25:07.403 --> 00:25:08.263 everybody that's involved 00:25:08.284 --> 00:25:09.704 with this show knows that I 00:25:09.765 --> 00:25:10.806 hang around with some real 00:25:10.826 --> 00:25:12.146 estate guys and some asset 00:25:12.166 --> 00:25:13.086 management guys and people 00:25:13.106 --> 00:25:14.188 that kind of know this side 00:25:14.228 --> 00:25:14.827 of the business. 00:25:15.428 --> 00:25:17.950 So I'm involved in those conversations. 00:25:19.050 --> 00:25:19.971 You know, yesterday's guest, 00:25:20.030 --> 00:25:20.611 Michael Schumer, 00:25:20.631 --> 00:25:21.632 has been on several times. 00:25:21.652 --> 00:25:22.992 I've spoken to him several times. 00:25:23.053 --> 00:25:24.493 And I'm always interested in 00:25:24.554 --> 00:25:25.673 his shows and his 00:25:25.753 --> 00:25:26.714 conversations personally. 00:25:27.284 --> 00:25:27.463 Of course, 00:25:27.483 --> 00:25:28.905 you could talk about Craig or anybody, 00:25:28.925 --> 00:25:30.166 any number of other people 00:25:30.227 --> 00:25:31.508 involved in these shows and 00:25:31.548 --> 00:25:32.229 these productions. 00:25:32.969 --> 00:25:33.930 And it was something I 00:25:34.510 --> 00:25:35.711 enjoyed hearing about, 00:25:35.731 --> 00:25:37.492 but not something I really 00:25:37.614 --> 00:25:39.654 could understand in terms 00:25:39.674 --> 00:25:40.536 of what was being said, 00:25:40.596 --> 00:25:41.537 especially as some of these 00:25:41.576 --> 00:25:43.538 higher level conversations happened. 00:25:43.979 --> 00:25:45.740 Certain acronyms were being said, 00:25:45.840 --> 00:25:47.643 certain terminology was being said, 00:25:47.682 --> 00:25:48.383 and everyone knew what 00:25:48.403 --> 00:25:49.423 everyone was talking about. 00:25:49.443 --> 00:25:49.825 And I'm like... 00:25:51.128 --> 00:25:52.029 Again, for a lot of years, 00:25:52.069 --> 00:25:53.391 I just nodded and smiled. 00:25:53.451 --> 00:25:53.770 I still do. 00:25:53.810 --> 00:25:54.672 Nod and smile. 00:25:54.791 --> 00:25:55.573 Nod and smile. 00:25:55.613 --> 00:25:56.614 So, you know. 00:25:56.693 --> 00:25:57.694 You know, that's on purpose. 00:25:58.414 --> 00:25:59.536 It's basically just to 00:25:59.717 --> 00:26:01.417 obfuscate the obvious and 00:26:01.738 --> 00:26:02.939 speak in another language 00:26:03.019 --> 00:26:05.000 that lay people don't understand. 00:26:05.020 --> 00:26:07.222 That's the whole thing about real estate. 00:26:07.723 --> 00:26:07.884 Yeah. 00:26:07.903 --> 00:26:07.983 Well, 00:26:08.243 --> 00:26:09.805 I am certainly a lay person in that 00:26:09.884 --> 00:26:10.226 space. 00:26:10.566 --> 00:26:12.146 So, you know, but again, 00:26:12.208 --> 00:26:12.728 it was something that was 00:26:12.768 --> 00:26:13.989 always very interesting to me. 00:26:14.009 --> 00:26:15.589 You know, going to these conferences. 00:26:15.990 --> 00:26:17.332 I was with you at NYU. 00:26:17.571 --> 00:26:18.393 Obviously, click. 00:26:19.924 --> 00:26:21.286 So seeing how these kind of 00:26:21.326 --> 00:26:22.567 deals start to come together, 00:26:22.606 --> 00:26:24.407 I wanted to learn more both 00:26:24.428 --> 00:26:26.769 from a personal curiosity 00:26:26.789 --> 00:26:28.672 standpoint and also a 00:26:28.711 --> 00:26:31.314 professional development standpoint. 00:26:31.453 --> 00:26:32.755 And obviously Cornell in 00:26:32.835 --> 00:26:33.935 general has a very well 00:26:33.976 --> 00:26:35.637 respected name in the industry. 00:26:36.417 --> 00:26:37.459 I hopped over to that 00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:39.300 website and I was talking to one of my, 00:26:39.780 --> 00:26:40.961 I won't say a colleague 00:26:40.981 --> 00:26:42.503 because she's well above me 00:26:42.523 --> 00:26:43.044 in the company, 00:26:43.084 --> 00:26:44.244 but somebody who's well 00:26:45.105 --> 00:26:46.547 respected in my company about 00:26:47.405 --> 00:26:49.007 professional development opportunities. 00:26:49.047 --> 00:26:50.788 And she mentioned a course 00:26:50.988 --> 00:26:52.910 like that within Cornell. 00:26:53.430 --> 00:26:54.371 So when I went onto the 00:26:54.431 --> 00:26:56.231 website and saw the large 00:26:56.311 --> 00:26:57.172 number of certificate 00:26:57.192 --> 00:26:58.252 programs that are there, 00:26:59.534 --> 00:27:01.275 that one immediately stood out to me. 00:27:01.535 --> 00:27:03.155 I didn't know Professor 00:27:03.175 --> 00:27:04.017 DeRose ahead of time. 00:27:04.057 --> 00:27:05.698 There was no connection to me, 00:27:05.778 --> 00:27:07.078 to him or his work. 00:27:07.538 --> 00:27:08.058 Before that, 00:27:08.078 --> 00:27:09.480 it just happened that we 00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:12.021 connected or I connected to his material. 00:27:13.173 --> 00:27:14.694 And it was just so well laid out. 00:27:14.934 --> 00:27:15.835 And I'm not just saying that. 00:27:15.934 --> 00:27:17.056 I know we get our shameless 00:27:17.155 --> 00:27:19.856 plug time for Professor DeRozan. 00:27:19.896 --> 00:27:20.797 I'm taking that time. 00:27:23.617 --> 00:27:25.439 It was so well laid out. 00:27:25.858 --> 00:27:27.160 It was really digestible. 00:27:27.220 --> 00:27:28.381 Again, I'm a lay person. 00:27:29.560 --> 00:27:30.922 The terms are well done. 00:27:30.942 --> 00:27:31.902 But it's not just something where, 00:27:31.922 --> 00:27:32.481 you know, 00:27:32.501 --> 00:27:34.423 it's some writings and some recordings. 00:27:35.604 --> 00:27:38.184 They give you the tools to be successful, 00:27:38.484 --> 00:27:41.006 not just for the course and the program. 00:27:41.925 --> 00:27:42.767 but for the future. 00:27:42.787 --> 00:27:43.866 Professor DeRose, 00:27:43.886 --> 00:27:44.847 you can speak to this further. 00:27:45.607 --> 00:27:46.689 I downloaded every single 00:27:46.729 --> 00:27:47.589 spreadsheet that you 00:27:47.829 --> 00:27:51.311 developed and created in my computer. 00:27:51.633 --> 00:27:52.952 There's pre-built 00:27:53.032 --> 00:27:54.493 spreadsheets that you use 00:27:54.554 --> 00:27:55.815 to learn the content, 00:27:56.675 --> 00:27:57.496 but then you take those 00:27:57.516 --> 00:27:59.597 spreadsheets for the rest of your career. 00:27:59.738 --> 00:28:01.838 Now that I'm done with the program, 00:28:02.019 --> 00:28:05.142 I've been dabbling in some practice. 00:28:05.261 --> 00:28:06.501 I'm very fortunate through 00:28:06.521 --> 00:28:07.522 some of those contacts I 00:28:07.542 --> 00:28:08.284 was just mentioning. 00:28:08.304 --> 00:28:10.164 They've been able to give me some 00:28:10.915 --> 00:28:12.016 dummy accounts and things 00:28:12.056 --> 00:28:13.017 they're working on. 00:28:14.037 --> 00:28:14.196 Um, 00:28:14.957 --> 00:28:16.518 and I've been messing around practicing 00:28:16.538 --> 00:28:17.337 when I've reached out to 00:28:17.357 --> 00:28:18.759 Professor DeRue's like, Hey, I'm stuck, 00:28:19.318 --> 00:28:20.598 you know, 00:28:20.618 --> 00:28:22.019 to help me through our connection here. 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:25.780 But, um, it's, it's a, 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.061 it's a real easy way to get 00:28:29.102 --> 00:28:30.321 a base level knowledge of 00:28:30.662 --> 00:28:31.663 that side of the industry 00:28:31.702 --> 00:28:32.522 or other sides of the 00:28:32.542 --> 00:28:33.383 industry that you may not 00:28:33.442 --> 00:28:34.683 know about other topics. 00:28:34.723 --> 00:28:37.045 Of course, I found it very digestible. 00:28:37.065 --> 00:28:38.125 I found it very fun. 00:28:38.669 --> 00:28:39.990 I found it very affordable, 00:28:40.170 --> 00:28:41.411 which is also key because, hey, 00:28:41.570 --> 00:28:42.132 three kids, 00:28:42.951 --> 00:28:44.153 not much is very affordable 00:28:44.212 --> 00:28:45.013 for me right now. 00:28:46.734 --> 00:28:48.516 But it's just very easily accessible. 00:28:48.536 --> 00:28:51.198 The barrier of entry is very low. 00:28:51.917 --> 00:28:54.180 And the prerequisite knowledge, yes. 00:28:54.941 --> 00:28:55.820 Will it help to have some 00:28:55.881 --> 00:28:56.922 prerequisite knowledge in 00:28:56.981 --> 00:28:59.483 P&L understanding how some 00:28:59.523 --> 00:29:00.144 of the deals get made? 00:29:00.203 --> 00:29:00.884 Yes, of course. 00:29:01.424 --> 00:29:02.145 So I wouldn't just say... 00:29:02.772 --> 00:29:03.772 If you have no clue what a 00:29:03.814 --> 00:29:05.213 P&L is or no clue what a 00:29:05.273 --> 00:29:06.855 line item is or no clue how 00:29:06.875 --> 00:29:08.615 a budget or forecast model gets built, 00:29:09.155 --> 00:29:10.156 maybe learn that first. 00:29:11.416 --> 00:29:12.938 But if you do have that understanding, 00:29:13.057 --> 00:29:14.138 you can jump right in and 00:29:14.298 --> 00:29:15.138 really understand it. 00:29:15.659 --> 00:29:17.720 And more so than that, I would say, 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:18.800 and Professor, you can say, 00:29:19.161 --> 00:29:20.342 both professors can tell me 00:29:20.362 --> 00:29:21.061 if this is different. 00:29:22.803 --> 00:29:23.682 Once the course ended, 00:29:24.284 --> 00:29:25.584 I was just hungry for more knowledge. 00:29:26.684 --> 00:29:27.704 I reached out to some people. 00:29:27.724 --> 00:29:29.346 They gave me some more opportunities, 00:29:29.385 --> 00:29:30.826 some books to read. 00:29:31.997 --> 00:29:33.219 Just on a pre-call here, 00:29:33.419 --> 00:29:34.079 I'm going to go take 00:29:34.099 --> 00:29:35.122 another certificate program 00:29:35.162 --> 00:29:36.663 recommended by Professor Deroos. 00:29:36.923 --> 00:29:38.105 So, you know, 00:29:38.145 --> 00:29:39.607 it just may be hungrier to learn more. 00:29:39.667 --> 00:29:41.711 It may be hungrier to get into this field. 00:29:42.172 --> 00:29:43.394 It may be hungrier to learn 00:29:43.433 --> 00:29:44.295 more of this side of the 00:29:44.355 --> 00:29:45.175 business for my 00:29:45.215 --> 00:29:46.157 professional development 00:29:46.597 --> 00:29:47.900 and potentially career progression. 00:29:47.940 --> 00:29:48.320 Who knows? 00:29:48.933 --> 00:29:50.154 so dave I've got a question 00:29:50.194 --> 00:29:52.096 for you um you just came 00:29:52.175 --> 00:29:53.237 off of going to the click 00:29:53.257 --> 00:29:56.298 conference and so how as 00:29:56.358 --> 00:29:57.318 you know this is what us 00:29:57.459 --> 00:29:58.819 academics love to hear 00:29:58.960 --> 00:30:00.681 right I want to hear how 00:30:00.740 --> 00:30:03.702 you translated what uh dr 00:30:03.782 --> 00:30:06.065 drews shared in that class 00:30:06.144 --> 00:30:07.125 and how you were able to 00:30:07.224 --> 00:30:08.865 leverage that knowledge and 00:30:09.067 --> 00:30:11.008 maybe show up glenn um with 00:30:11.048 --> 00:30:12.328 his lack of knowledge when 00:30:12.348 --> 00:30:13.308 you were out in california 00:30:15.592 --> 00:30:16.532 This is true. 00:30:16.553 --> 00:30:17.953 From the first Click 00:30:18.213 --> 00:30:19.855 conference I went to two 00:30:19.875 --> 00:30:24.317 years ago to this one, night and day, 00:30:25.818 --> 00:30:27.640 simply and solely because of the program. 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:30.342 I'm not saying that because 00:30:30.603 --> 00:30:31.182 you're on the show. 00:30:31.202 --> 00:30:32.344 I'm not saying that because 00:30:32.844 --> 00:30:34.005 I'm trying to promote you. 00:30:34.125 --> 00:30:35.385 It's truly facts. 00:30:36.125 --> 00:30:37.047 As you're going through the 00:30:37.086 --> 00:30:37.788 different panels, 00:30:38.647 --> 00:30:41.609 as we had the initial show with Bruce. 00:30:42.131 --> 00:30:42.211 Yep. 00:30:43.911 --> 00:30:45.971 a lot of that stuff made more sense to me. 00:30:46.551 --> 00:30:47.452 I was able to actually have 00:30:47.492 --> 00:30:48.953 a knowledgeable conversation. 00:30:48.993 --> 00:30:49.753 That explains why you 00:30:49.773 --> 00:30:50.434 actually asked some good 00:30:50.474 --> 00:30:51.194 questions for once. 00:30:51.434 --> 00:30:52.056 Yeah, see? 00:30:52.875 --> 00:30:54.497 You're going to make me cry. 00:30:54.517 --> 00:30:56.278 I'm serious. 00:30:57.096 --> 00:30:59.258 that's exactly the idea it 00:30:59.317 --> 00:31:00.659 was it was all about 00:31:00.858 --> 00:31:03.180 actionable things that you 00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:05.421 can use in your career now 00:31:05.441 --> 00:31:06.820 I hope that as you progress 00:31:06.840 --> 00:31:07.922 you get on the ownership 00:31:07.942 --> 00:31:09.501 side because you get to do 00:31:09.521 --> 00:31:11.623 the money dance when you do 00:31:11.682 --> 00:31:12.784 the refinancing of your 00:31:12.824 --> 00:31:13.923 hotel so you bought it for 00:31:13.923 --> 00:31:15.365 100 you financed it and 00:31:15.404 --> 00:31:16.305 then you know rates have 00:31:16.365 --> 00:31:17.486 risen and inflation has 00:31:17.506 --> 00:31:18.286 been good and you've been a 00:31:18.346 --> 00:31:20.067 good manager or asset manager 00:31:20.586 --> 00:31:22.548 And you now have a bigger cash flow. 00:31:22.929 --> 00:31:24.930 You refinance it and you pay 00:31:25.010 --> 00:31:26.332 off your old mortgage and 00:31:26.352 --> 00:31:27.913 you get to keep all the upside. 00:31:28.712 --> 00:31:31.454 It's an amazing, amazing thing. 00:31:31.535 --> 00:31:33.136 You get to buy drinks and you don't care. 00:31:33.676 --> 00:31:35.157 Yeah. 00:31:35.618 --> 00:31:37.359 But that's exactly, that's exactly what, 00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:37.720 you know, 00:31:37.779 --> 00:31:38.921 now I need to take that next step. 00:31:38.980 --> 00:31:39.201 Right. 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:41.482 So now I understand what he just said. 00:31:41.502 --> 00:31:43.565 I probably wouldn't have six months ago. 00:31:44.184 --> 00:31:44.444 Right. 00:31:44.505 --> 00:31:45.506 If you had asked me how to 00:31:45.546 --> 00:31:46.446 actually execute that. 00:31:47.923 --> 00:31:49.986 I'm going to continue to wear that. 00:31:50.026 --> 00:31:51.047 That's the next level. 00:31:51.747 --> 00:31:53.128 I do that in my face-to-face course, 00:31:53.148 --> 00:31:54.430 which is talk a lot about, okay, 00:31:54.450 --> 00:31:57.772 so now execution. 00:31:59.034 --> 00:32:02.096 That's where my real-world 00:32:02.136 --> 00:32:03.176 experience has helped me 00:32:03.278 --> 00:32:07.121 because things pass a smell test. 00:32:08.761 --> 00:32:10.104 This is something that's 00:32:10.183 --> 00:32:11.545 translatable across a wide range of 00:32:16.184 --> 00:32:17.445 We're not just talking about 00:32:17.465 --> 00:32:20.909 this being usable in New 00:32:20.949 --> 00:32:23.531 York or Florida or California. 00:32:23.612 --> 00:32:26.453 You can translate these concepts across. 00:32:26.534 --> 00:32:28.476 I will tell you that this is 00:32:28.556 --> 00:32:30.238 not how they do business in Kenya. 00:32:31.338 --> 00:32:33.681 That person in class and uh-uh. 00:32:34.869 --> 00:32:35.990 I know you taught in Paris. 00:32:36.050 --> 00:32:36.892 How about in Paris? 00:32:39.015 --> 00:32:40.096 They do follow what I call 00:32:40.115 --> 00:32:41.698 Western norms of finance over there. 00:32:41.718 --> 00:32:43.559 This all works because we're capitalists. 00:32:43.980 --> 00:32:49.066 If you get to places where money is... 00:32:50.607 --> 00:32:53.368 more fungible. 00:32:53.388 --> 00:32:55.108 Before we wrap up, 00:32:55.368 --> 00:32:57.489 the message I'm taking away from this is, 00:32:57.990 --> 00:32:59.470 whereas hospitality schools 00:32:59.529 --> 00:33:00.789 used to fundamentally focus 00:33:00.829 --> 00:33:01.490 a lot on what's 00:33:01.529 --> 00:33:03.830 specifically happening on the property, 00:33:04.270 --> 00:33:07.131 programs like your offering, Jan, 00:33:07.171 --> 00:33:08.251 is really helping people 00:33:08.291 --> 00:33:09.791 understand there are so 00:33:09.852 --> 00:33:11.172 many other facets to our 00:33:11.211 --> 00:33:12.372 business where you could be 00:33:12.432 --> 00:33:13.393 in hospitality, 00:33:13.772 --> 00:33:15.272 but not necessarily have to 00:33:15.313 --> 00:33:17.073 be servicing a customer at 00:33:17.113 --> 00:33:18.513 the property level. 00:33:18.534 --> 00:33:19.433 How do you see this fitting 00:33:19.493 --> 00:33:20.094 into the scheme 00:33:20.213 --> 00:33:20.554 Well, 00:33:20.653 --> 00:33:23.256 I think it's incredibly important for 00:33:23.296 --> 00:33:24.076 people that have great 00:33:24.176 --> 00:33:25.377 ideas and support 00:33:25.417 --> 00:33:27.338 operations and have 00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:29.540 businesses that are tremendous. 00:33:29.580 --> 00:33:30.521 But there's a whole capital 00:33:30.582 --> 00:33:31.622 market side of the business 00:33:31.642 --> 00:33:33.163 that treats these as financial assets. 00:33:33.784 --> 00:33:34.805 And that's another side of 00:33:34.825 --> 00:33:35.904 the industry that I think 00:33:36.465 --> 00:33:37.686 people can have very 00:33:37.787 --> 00:33:39.107 legitimate and great careers in. 00:33:39.688 --> 00:33:40.828 But sometimes, you know, 00:33:40.848 --> 00:33:41.848 when I see students that 00:33:41.888 --> 00:33:42.710 are really creative, 00:33:42.789 --> 00:33:43.609 I always encourage them to 00:33:43.650 --> 00:33:44.671 go on the operations side 00:33:44.691 --> 00:33:45.491 because you can make a lot 00:33:45.511 --> 00:33:46.892 of money with good ideas on 00:33:46.951 --> 00:33:49.094 that side and not get stuck 00:33:49.134 --> 00:33:51.515 being an analyst all day. 00:33:51.595 --> 00:33:53.256 I mean, 00:33:53.276 --> 00:33:54.517 there's hard work to be done on 00:33:54.557 --> 00:33:54.997 both sides, 00:33:55.057 --> 00:33:56.458 but I think the actual 00:33:56.518 --> 00:33:58.619 operations side of this is enormous fun. 00:33:58.759 --> 00:34:00.361 But it's, you know, 00:34:00.441 --> 00:34:01.461 there's a product side and 00:34:01.500 --> 00:34:02.501 there's a capital market side. 00:34:03.317 --> 00:34:04.196 let me say one last thing 00:34:04.217 --> 00:34:05.397 from my side you know if 00:34:05.417 --> 00:34:06.278 you are on the operations 00:34:06.298 --> 00:34:07.357 side coming from someone on 00:34:07.377 --> 00:34:08.318 the operations side just 00:34:08.358 --> 00:34:09.518 because you may not want to 00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:10.760 go into that side of the 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:11.739 business does not mean this 00:34:11.780 --> 00:34:13.099 knowledge is not useful to 00:34:13.159 --> 00:34:14.760 you as well this is 00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:16.362 definitely you know if I 00:34:16.501 --> 00:34:18.702 never change past and I'm a 00:34:18.762 --> 00:34:20.003 gm for the rest of my life 00:34:20.902 --> 00:34:23.123 this information is very 00:34:23.224 --> 00:34:24.483 useful to understand how to 00:34:24.523 --> 00:34:26.344 most efficiently run this operation 00:34:26.826 --> 00:34:27.065 Right. 00:34:27.085 --> 00:34:28.347 You don't understand that side. 00:34:28.367 --> 00:34:29.128 You don't understand what 00:34:29.148 --> 00:34:30.369 the owner wants to do and 00:34:30.409 --> 00:34:30.949 understand their 00:34:30.969 --> 00:34:32.331 motivations and their reasonings, 00:34:32.371 --> 00:34:34.432 which is a large part of this program. 00:34:34.952 --> 00:34:36.094 And now I understand. 00:34:36.735 --> 00:34:37.195 I mean, 00:34:37.235 --> 00:34:38.677 I literally went back and read my 00:34:38.876 --> 00:34:40.398 HMA after the certificate 00:34:40.438 --> 00:34:41.179 and I understand, 00:34:41.498 --> 00:34:43.900 understood it's so much better. 00:34:44.101 --> 00:34:45.643 And I literally was tying 00:34:46.563 --> 00:34:48.065 paragraphs and content in 00:34:48.105 --> 00:34:50.567 the HMA hotel management agreement, 00:34:50.626 --> 00:34:53.170 if you don't know, but HMA to 00:34:54.704 --> 00:34:55.606 you know, the course. 00:34:55.686 --> 00:34:56.505 And I was remembering, okay, 00:34:56.545 --> 00:34:58.427 this part of the course, it said this, 00:34:58.507 --> 00:34:59.606 and I'm seeing it right here. 00:35:00.387 --> 00:35:01.847 So it was just, it was wonderful. 00:35:01.907 --> 00:35:02.949 So I still recommend if 00:35:03.048 --> 00:35:03.929 you're an operations side 00:35:03.949 --> 00:35:05.909 to look into a course like this, 00:35:06.331 --> 00:35:07.550 because it will help that 00:35:07.990 --> 00:35:08.952 progression in your career 00:35:08.972 --> 00:35:09.931 from the operational side. 00:35:10.552 --> 00:35:11.213 Just for kicks, 00:35:11.233 --> 00:35:12.313 did you read your franchise 00:35:12.373 --> 00:35:13.614 disclosure agreement yet? 00:35:14.092 --> 00:35:14.773 I haven't gotten there yet. 00:35:14.934 --> 00:35:15.893 I have a lot to read. 00:35:16.273 --> 00:35:17.454 I have picked up so much to 00:35:17.514 --> 00:35:19.556 read in that continuation of education. 00:35:19.657 --> 00:35:22.278 Right now I have a 570 some odd page book. 00:35:22.818 --> 00:35:24.280 I don't remember the exact clauses. 00:35:24.300 --> 00:35:25.440 There's only four clauses 00:35:25.481 --> 00:35:26.981 that really matter in an FDD. 00:35:27.181 --> 00:35:30.704 So the rest of it's required 00:35:30.784 --> 00:35:33.965 by the Federal Trade Commission. 00:35:34.005 --> 00:35:34.987 Out of 360 pages, 00:35:35.007 --> 00:35:35.887 you probably only need four. 00:35:36.563 --> 00:35:36.784 Yeah. 00:35:37.945 --> 00:35:38.885 All right. 00:35:38.905 --> 00:35:40.045 So let's wrap things up. 00:35:40.706 --> 00:35:41.086 Jan, 00:35:41.126 --> 00:35:42.688 I know Jay's been shamelessly plugging 00:35:42.708 --> 00:35:42.887 you, 00:35:43.007 --> 00:35:45.829 but how do we learn more about this 00:35:45.949 --> 00:35:46.670 program, please? 00:35:48.431 --> 00:35:51.253 Oh, www.ecornell.com. 00:35:52.253 --> 00:35:52.713 Easy enough. 00:35:53.603 --> 00:35:53.963 Easy enough. 00:35:54.284 --> 00:35:56.907 I'm going to say let's go there, 00:35:56.927 --> 00:35:58.447 but then also find the right program. 00:35:58.467 --> 00:35:59.789 Because there's so many programs, 00:35:59.869 --> 00:36:00.550 not even in Hockey Town. 00:36:00.570 --> 00:36:01.490 Just put my name in. 00:36:01.771 --> 00:36:06.114 Or real estate. 00:36:06.135 --> 00:36:07.175 When you get there, just real estate. 00:36:07.195 --> 00:36:08.458 There's a very rich real 00:36:08.478 --> 00:36:09.137 estate curriculum. 00:36:09.177 --> 00:36:09.978 And I don't want to tout 00:36:10.018 --> 00:36:11.440 mine as if soul... 00:36:12.481 --> 00:36:13.762 Arbiter of good stuff. 00:36:13.782 --> 00:36:16.302 There's everybody who loves 00:36:16.422 --> 00:36:17.422 the executive program. 00:36:17.523 --> 00:36:21.143 We all, Suzanne, tell me if I'm wrong. 00:36:21.324 --> 00:36:22.565 We love our undergraduates. 00:36:22.985 --> 00:36:25.106 We love our executive programs. 00:36:25.445 --> 00:36:26.965 Our grads are pains in the ass. 00:36:29.867 --> 00:36:31.148 I will do an executive 00:36:31.208 --> 00:36:33.268 education program over a grant any day. 00:36:33.608 --> 00:36:33.849 Yeah. 00:36:34.289 --> 00:36:36.210 And so that's just the way it is. 00:36:36.269 --> 00:36:37.190 So, you know, 00:36:37.309 --> 00:36:38.311 we love our executive 00:36:38.331 --> 00:36:39.271 programs and people want to 00:36:39.291 --> 00:36:40.572 put their good stuff online. 00:36:41.271 --> 00:36:41.532 Awesome. 00:36:41.782 --> 00:36:43.625 So my question before you go, 00:36:44.065 --> 00:36:45.567 just because I want to pull 00:36:45.646 --> 00:36:47.027 off of executive education, 00:36:47.068 --> 00:36:49.010 but really just get your final take. 00:36:49.030 --> 00:36:50.492 I know we talked a lot about HI, 00:36:50.552 --> 00:36:52.193 but what do you see as 00:36:52.333 --> 00:36:54.635 either the clouds and the 00:36:54.695 --> 00:36:56.438 bright spots coming up on 00:36:56.478 --> 00:36:59.061 the horizon in the next year and beyond? 00:37:00.036 --> 00:37:03.197 I think the clouds are 00:37:03.358 --> 00:37:06.840 continuing redefinitions of 00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:08.101 the industry of what supply 00:37:08.201 --> 00:37:09.280 is and that supply being 00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:11.282 able to grow really quickly 00:37:11.342 --> 00:37:12.722 like Airbnb just brought in 00:37:12.963 --> 00:37:13.902 additional supply. 00:37:14.463 --> 00:37:15.784 I think that's a real threat. 00:37:17.164 --> 00:37:20.427 And I think that, unfortunately, 00:37:21.007 --> 00:37:23.429 inbound travel could be restricted. 00:37:24.210 --> 00:37:27.273 So I think that's a threat 00:37:27.614 --> 00:37:28.875 to occupancies as a whole. 00:37:29.456 --> 00:37:31.137 In terms of bright spots, 00:37:31.757 --> 00:37:33.759 I think our economy is booming. 00:37:33.918 --> 00:37:35.079 I think people want to travel. 00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:36.601 The first thing you want to do, 00:37:37.822 --> 00:37:39.143 it's pinky swear, 00:37:39.184 --> 00:37:40.844 we're taking me on vacation this year, 00:37:40.864 --> 00:37:42.646 you son of a gun. 00:37:42.927 --> 00:37:44.751 right um and we're taking 00:37:44.791 --> 00:37:45.833 the kids somewhere and you 00:37:46.132 --> 00:37:47.755 know that's really a huge 00:37:47.835 --> 00:37:48.898 piece on giving the 00:37:49.139 --> 00:37:50.481 businesses back getting 00:37:50.521 --> 00:37:51.764 leisure back and group back 00:37:51.844 --> 00:37:53.226 I think is uh you know 00:37:53.567 --> 00:37:54.668 people want to travel and 00:37:54.829 --> 00:37:55.710 have new experiences 00:37:56.461 --> 00:37:57.563 Yep, absolutely. 00:37:58.043 --> 00:37:58.943 Well, thank you so much, Dan. 00:37:58.983 --> 00:38:01.425 We really appreciate you being here today. 00:38:01.445 --> 00:38:01.885 Thank you. 00:38:02.445 --> 00:38:02.945 Thank you. 00:38:02.965 --> 00:38:03.905 Hey, Dave. 00:38:03.925 --> 00:38:05.726 Appreciate me being here too? 00:38:05.887 --> 00:38:07.847 No, I work here at every moment. 00:38:07.887 --> 00:38:09.588 You're sharing a screen with me. 00:38:09.869 --> 00:38:10.750 But I do want to say, hey, 00:38:10.789 --> 00:38:11.530 maybe you want to do an 00:38:11.570 --> 00:38:12.831 official sign-off today as well. 00:38:12.851 --> 00:38:14.072 We'll have a triple sign-off 00:38:14.112 --> 00:38:14.731 or something like that. 00:38:14.891 --> 00:38:15.992 Before that, hey, 00:38:16.032 --> 00:38:17.253 make sure you download the 00:38:17.313 --> 00:38:18.715 video version of this on audio. 00:38:18.735 --> 00:38:19.596 You're out walking the dog. 00:38:19.635 --> 00:38:21.157 You're out getting some exercise, 00:38:21.197 --> 00:38:21.757 which I'm going to be 00:38:21.777 --> 00:38:23.298 hopefully doing this afternoon. 00:38:23.579 --> 00:38:24.539 And I like listening to my 00:38:24.579 --> 00:38:25.360 favorite podcast, 00:38:25.400 --> 00:38:26.880 Why Not Download No Vacancy, 00:38:26.940 --> 00:38:28.623 and have us in your ears. 00:38:28.663 --> 00:38:29.563 Lots of great information. 00:38:29.844 --> 00:38:30.684 You want to re-listen to that. 00:38:30.724 --> 00:38:31.565 And if you want to watch us, 00:38:31.605 --> 00:38:34.086 find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, of course, 00:38:34.126 --> 00:38:37.690 at NoVacancyNews.com, and on YouTube. 00:38:37.730 --> 00:38:38.751 Thanks, everyone, for being here. 00:38:38.771 --> 00:38:40.311 And remember, you've got one life, 00:38:40.331 --> 00:38:41.172 so blaze on. 00:38:42.273 --> 00:38:43.034 Follow your passion. 00:38:44.050 --> 00:38:44.913 Be kind to yourself. 00:38:46.016 --> 00:38:46.356 All right. 00:38:46.416 --> 00:38:46.818 There we go. 00:38:46.838 --> 00:38:47.340 That's tomorrow. 00:38:47.380 --> 00:38:47.800 All right. 00:38:47.820 --> 00:38:48.643 See you tomorrow.